Missing Code-Function for room protection

[Ica]

6 minutes ago, Torax said:

Then my bad and again apologies

All fine Torax.... I am a fan of your design since the first day and thats quite a time ago :). I am just trying to discuss this password protection idea and  I am thinking such a function is like a option. Maybe it makes people who do hide rooms more flexible to share and I guess this makes 3dx more interesting in general

[BellaGirl]

If you really wanna mess with people changing your work, join everything and turn 3 degrees, lol. Serious though, I love to share my work and if I'm lucky enough to see someone has a creation I made in their room I actually feel quite proud. It's something I look forward to when out exploring in the worlds of 3DX... and as far as encryption on the file so it can't be modified, I'd love to see that added and I'm sure it would solve so many issues. Just my thoughts on the the subject.

[Pandorra]

8 hours ago, Ica said:

Arent there enough examples from RL that you can buy what you are not goint to change. Like paintings, a car and and and? ...

If you'd know what indeed I did change about my car.

And if it would be mine I could paint Mona Lisa a beard even. And prolly I even would. I bought it, I can bloody well boot it.

This is the sick idea in fact about "arts". Even some buildings. No nothing to change since it is art.

Pff! If I can't use it my own way, just keep it.

[Malene]

26 minutes ago, Pandorra said:

This is the sick idea in fact about "arts". Even some buildings. No nothing to change since it is art.

Pff! If I can't use it my own way, just keep it.

Sure you`r not Banksy, just chilling in 3dx to get away from it all ? :]

[Gizmo]

14 hours ago, Ica said:

There are two worlds we are talking here about. The one is the absolut free world. When you do share a design ingame; people can do with it what they want. I am even supporting this since years! But there is the other world. The world when people are so creative, having an outstanding, wonderfull designs and it is not a lie that someone did spent more than 1000hours to design something. What is the problem when 3dx is supporting "both worlds"? It is just a password-function, which will be used or it
won`t be used. 3dx would be much more flexible in mind with such a function  .

I totally understand what you're saying. Spending many months and years working on a unique project and then finding that it is being used without your permission is not a pleasant feeling.  I know what I'm talking about because it happened to our project.

The idea is that you should not share the room file if you fear it will be leaked. Even if you theoretically put a password on the file, if you share the password, you can assume that your room is already public. I don't see how a password would help you protect the room.

[Ica]

2 hours ago, Gizmo said:

I totally understand what you're saying. Spending many months and years working on a unique project and then finding that it is being used without your permission is not a pleasant feeling.  I know what I'm talking about because it happened to our project.

The idea is that you should not share the room file if you fear it will be leaked. Even if you theoretically put a password on the file, if you share the password, you can assume that your room is already public. I don't see how a password would help you protect the room.

Thank you for your feedback Gizmo. I guess the time did change 3dx. At the beginning we did place standard table together to have an floor. And now....the editor is powerful and comes with a lot of designing options and this is outstanding!

Maybe at one day you will re-think all

Pros:
- People can share time-consuming designs
- 3dx is more attractive for long-time designers
- This endless discussion who did copy what and where are over (requirement: usind of a password function)
- The free-shareing world does still exists
- Why not offering the protection for Gold ingame? E.g. 1000 Gold for password protection?

Cons:
- Loosing a password (what will happen then?)
- I am not able to even add a chair or whatever (Standards settings like daytime/nighttime settings are not protected)

 

Ica

Edited August 27, 2023 by Ica

[Pandorra]

I suppose the basic differance is why to build at all. Of course there are no distinct borders and things and motivation mix and entangle with each other more or less, but in general I simplify it as follows.

Either you like the proces of building per se, so does not matter how long it takes and after you finish you can use it for your purpose and maybe even give it away for public, so others may have fun too.

Or you build with the intention to make an additional dollar with it.

Since the latter though came never to my mind so far, I do not really care about protection at all, exept for those who open up their roooms for public parties, but do not intend to give it to public as a world file. But this problem seems to be solved by now.

Besides, I am for sure not Banksy, but it does not need a Banksy to create art. On the other hand, not everything considered art by public or "experts", I would agree to put this label too.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Pandorra

[Gizmo]

3 hours ago, Ica said:

Maybe at one day you will re-think all
Why not offering the protection for Gold ingame? E.g. 1000 Gold for password protection?

It would be nice to understand why you need a password so badly? If you need it so badly, you can use password-protected ZIP archives as an alternative, for example. Can you think of situations where password-protected room files would be useful? And what are the main differences to using a password-protected ZIP archive?

Because I don't understand the need for a password on the room files.

Thank you very much!

[SerenityWillow]

On 8/23/2023 at 6:38 AM, Diana Prince said:

@Gizmo would it be possible to set a password to the world files? Like with pdf files, you can set a password, and you need to know it to open the file.
For world files, that password would be needed if you want to open it in the editor or host that room.
Of course, the world files itself needed to be encrypted, like the avatar files. Otherwise you could just copy and paste it with a text editor.

If you want to pw protect a file you don't need 3DX to do it, you can simply make it a self extracting zip/rar file that is pw protected. If it is made into a self extracting file all the end user has to do is double click it to unpack, no extra programs to dl for them.

[SerenityWillow]

After reading through this thread, I think Gizmo has done about the best that is possible. What it sounds like to me is people are asking for something that is not logical or effective for how the game works. The game works off of the HTTP protocol so it can be accessed from the web easily. This is what you are asking Gizmo in example "Hey gizmo can you make my water out of my tap solid so it won't flood my floor because of my kids friends keep taking all the water that I have made on the floor" He could freeze the line but it would not be practical for anyone that wants to drink the water. Once someone finds the handle to the spicket, Gizmo is kinda pointless at that point.

I think the encryption Gizmo added will help immensely, but if you share your creations, it is impossible to stop people from modifying it or claiming it is their work.

It is a well known fact that it is not frowned upon to use others stuff as long as you give the original creator props for their hard work. The only recourse you have is to out them and make their actions known.

I have a suggestion for Gizmo, can you make a pinned section in the forum to report the violators stealing peoples work selling it/claiming it is their work? Once their usernames are listed the owners or whomever can boot them from their rooms, this not only may cut down on the issue, but at least not make it worth doing because of the embarrassment of being on the list. And this also gives the victim some sort of relief knowing that something is being done about it.

Sounds like Gizmo has solved the issue in game, but when a room is shared it is unprotected.

[Gizmo]

As I said, the public rooms are encrypted. So theft is impossible, and there is no need to create a forum for complaints (which can lead to additional drama). And once the room creator has given the room file to someone else, the room can be considered available to everyone. There is no guarantee that another player won't give the room file to someone else.

[Diana Prince]

1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

It would be nice to understand why you need a password so badly? If you need it so badly, you can use password-protected ZIP archives as an alternative, for example. Can you think of situations where password-protected room files would be useful? And what are the main differences to using a password-protected ZIP archive?

Because I don't understand the need for a password on the room files.

Thank you very much!

Maybe I want to give the room I worked on for many months to someone else, but I want them NOT to change it. I can put a logo somewhere in the room with "Built by Diana Prince".
If I had now the possibility to save it as an world file that can NOT be loaded into the editor again (only open it as a public room), that would save a lot of discussions.
So why not have the function to save as an editable file or non-editable file? And you only share the version you are comfortable with.

*.world files would be the same as always.
*.worldX files would not be loadable into the editor and are encrypted, like the avatar files. Not plain readable text files.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Diana Prince

[Ica]

2 hours ago, Gizmo said:

Because I don't understand the need for a password on the room files.

If there would be a optinally password function then I could decide:

• I can share the room, but it is protected from getting changed, edited or from copying out parts of it
• I can share without protection and everybody can do with it, what is up to other minds

 

[OliverX]

I agree with DianaPrince. A "save as non-editable file" function would answer all these questions effectively. It seems to me that this would both encourage file sharing (many people would no longer hesitate instead of keeping their files on their computer) and give each player a real choice for which they would still be solely responsible, but which would be clearer and without dilemmas. This wouldn't really impact on the flow of free files shared as they already are on the various sites that offer it, but the total sum of these files available would be significantly increased with the addition of non-editable files, which would no doubt also please the entire gaming community. Let's not forget that many people don't have the time to explore the editor, and would be delighted to have more rooms at their disposal, which they could find on the same excellent sites. I'm also thinking of all those people who didn't think that others would appropriate their work, and who may have left the game out of spite... The game needs its creative community enormously, and this tool seems to me to be the ideal answer to these problems.

[Gizmo]

I see what you mean. You want to give a room to other players, but you want them to be able to open the room for visitors only. And they can't make any changes to the room in the editor.

I understand you well, and there's something important here. Let me explain. Preventing the free editing of rooms takes away the ability for players to be creative and edit the room however they want. For example, they might want to add something, remove something, change the color, and so on. And that ability is taken away from them. How will they feel? What do you think about that?

[Torax]

15 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

I see what you mean. You want to give a room to other players, but you want them to be able to open the room for visitors only. And they can't make any changes to the room in the editor.

I understand you well, and there's something important here. Let me explain. That takes away the ability for players to be creative, to edit that room however they want. For example, they might want to add something, remove something, change the color, and so on. And that ability is taken away from them. How will they feel? What do you think about that?

Well, if it is clearly stated that they buy or download for free a room that cannot be edited, and they still bur it or download, then it is there choice.  It all comes to well inform the person. 

I can create new categories on my site like : Editable rooms / Non editable rooms and people will then know clearly what they get. And same can be done with the store I think, buyers clearly stating if the room can be edited or not.

You can also see it this way, without this option, some rooms will never be shared, so I prefer a non editable room but shared, than no room shared at all

Edited August 28, 2023 by Torax

[Gizmo]

@Torax I understand your interest in disabling the ability to edit rooms It's not about whether or not the player is aware of the ability to edit rooms.

[Alliehotass]

Like Music Production.....You can share Stems of tha Track and anyone can modify tha Drum Track, synth, anything they like for eg, tha Track is modifyable.

Once Mastered tha track is not.

If you buy a CD, Vinyl, MP3 of a Song can you Modify it because you dont like tha snare sound or Bass line? ......No.

When I buy a Song i get how the Creater intended it, how they created it, they created something, shared it, yet it still remains their origianl vision.

I kind of think its a good idea for builders to "Master" their build.

People who want to use it have a choice as does tha builder. Release tha "Stems" Version or tha "Mastered" version, one can be modified tha other cant.

People still have choice, infact they now have more choice. 

The intent in game is for Players to be able to modify and change rooms, this wont change as they have choice. Builders will also and will inject a little respect in the game as far as those who spend their time to create worlds. 

Players retain tha ability to modify those rooms that have that function and cant in tha same way Frescos cant be edited, ive not yet heard anyone complain that they cant change textures in Fresco.

More choice for everyone which I think is fair and pleasing more people in game from user to creator

[OliverX]

@Gizmo: In my opinion, it's from the point of view of all players and not just the creators that this option would be beneficial, and therefore beneficial for the game itself.
As I pointed out above, each player would still have the possibility of modifying a room as he sees fit, so the possibility is not taken away from him. It's just that they'd have more files to upload, basically. Because if people were to share their room thanks to this option, they would essentially be people who wouldn't normally have shared it, so on the contrary, the result would be a greater abundance of shared creations. I think that Alliehotass said it all, but If you're worried about a form of frustration among certain players when they come into possession of a non-modifiable file, I don't think there's much of a problem: on the one hand the player would necessarily be informed before downloading, but in the worst case this would push him to create what he had in mind himself. So it's a system that's both respectful and virtuous, and one that would give the creative process its rightful place in the game. Not to mention it would save a ton of drama, this kind of tool would in my opinion take the game to the next level, very clearly.

[MeiLing]

Just as a reminder the best rooms have been in the early days of the editor and can be fully edited. I will never share a room not because it can be edit or not but because it is personal. There is no point in downloading a room if you can't add a couch or a trigger. Put this way it sounds silly. 

If you want your name in it, do as Amy did: put your name in the room, like a watermark. 

There is no need to add complexity (and bugs) to a system that works fine.

[Gizmo]

I understand that some builders spend a lot of time building their rooms and want to keep the editing exclusive. And these builders need a password feature to protect their rooms. And if they get the password option, they will use it most of the time. I'm convinced of that. And here's a very important point for most players. Most players are not professional builders, and they enjoy downloading a ready made room and customizing it to their liking.
If builders have password protection, it will lead to more and more rooms being locked from editing. After all, many builders want to keep their rooms exclusive. That's why I'm convinced that the password feature that some people here are asking for will eventually lead to even greater restrictions on the creativity of a large part of the players.

So, dear builders (those who ask for a password), I would like to ask you a question: why are you afraid to share your room freely?

 

[Diana Prince]

48 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

I understand that some builders spend a lot of time building their rooms and want to keep the editing exclusive. And these builders need a password feature to protect their rooms. And if they get the password option, they will use it most of the time. I'm convinced of that. And here's a very important point for most players. Most players are not professional builders, and they enjoy downloading a ready made room and customizing it to their liking.
If builders have password protection, it will lead to more and more rooms being locked from editing. After all, many builders want to keep their rooms exclusive. That's why I'm convinced that the password feature that some people here are asking for will eventually lead to even greater restrictions on the creativity of a large part of the players.

So, dear builders (those who ask for a password), I would like to ask you a question: why are you afraid to share your room freely?

 

I worked 7 month on my latest room, countless hours. And I want it to stay the way it is, because it's a 1:1 recreation of the Courthouse Square from Back to the Future.
Maybe these restrictions lead to even more creativity of the players because more people learn to build.
Maybe you saw Hinchs awesome New York room. Before he opened it, I thought my own New York room was good... But I was so wrong... So I took this an an encouragement to rebuild from scratch and make it (partially) even better and become a more experienced builder.

[Ica]

4 hours ago, Gizmo said:

So, dear builders (those who ask for a password), I would like to ask you a question: why are you afraid to share your room freely?

Cause other people do use free rooms for profit. This are just two examples:

• 5 years ago I shared a tiny design of an chapel-church as free download. Someone did download it.. did delete everything inside and is offering this church now as download and his work
• I did desing a hotel room. It was used in a video at youtube to get attention and clicks. They original room was edited for the video needs. There was no comment about that I did design it..

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Ica

[Torax]

 I am fine with the password to block editing a file, why not, but that wont stop anyone to use a room in a video, or stop him to resell it neither. The password will stop people to modify a room, and if they try to resell it will be much easier to find out. But that wont stop people with bad intention.

I wonder also, with a password system, if you put a password on an object (which is actually saved as if it is a whole room), then this object cant be used at all, so the password is useful only to had a layer of protection for full rooms bu not objects?

Concerning giving credits to original builders, this is a lost cause sorry, some people already claim builds as their own while they editing nothing in them. 

Maybe what could be interesting, is to have some kind of medata accessible to anyone visiting a room,  and you can click maybe on some information icon in game, giving informations like file name, file size, creation date and builder name. This is just a thought.

 

 

[Ica]

I understand your argument. Imagine there would be a password or not editable room. How I do understand this room might have an Room ID. The password might be connected with a kind of an ID. Maybe this would be helpful too.