Should avatars belonging to an account have a common parent nickname?

[JessicaX]

This has moved to a discussion of semantics, so... i am finished with this topic. have a great Sunday. 

[Twiggy]

If you understand how Pandora works to know its effectiveness of being able to stop everything that people do wrong with alts then you would know it is not as effective as people are making it out to be.

It scans the game from within the game, and does not do that constantly.

Lots of people know this and know they can do things for say 5 minutes and have very little chance of that being recorded in Pandora.

So for example, someone could make an alt, go into world chat and spread rumours about someone, then delete that avi and have very little chance anyone would be able to find out who it was.

It is similar with iggy, if someone creates an alt to spread rumours, if the person who is being attacked is not on, then iggy does nothing.

If someone does that mostly they won't even get reported unless a good friend takes the time to do so.

There has proven to be ways around the iggy before that hardly anyone knew about, one was to delete all the avis on your account which completely wiped all the iggys on that account.

Who can be certain there are not more ways to do this.

But even if there is not you can do a lot of damage to a players reputation without even facing that person, in fact that is where the majority of damage gets done by these people.

The report system, iggy and even if you include Pandora does not do anywhere near enough.

If someone wants to cause trouble for you it is far to easy for them to do so with the way things are, just create an alt, spread the bullshit and do the damage and delete it.

Yes there will be people that will go to the extent of creating another account, but there will also be those that won't.

Plus creating another account has its downfalls for them as well, you can't delete the last avi, so they would need to pay for the 2nd slot and use an alt for that to.

If they used just one then they could be reported and found much easier than they are able to be now in using alts the way they do as I explained.

Plus there are also the things that others that aren't out to so much make trouble for people, like stalking and crowding.

They are very hard to detect and often people do not know for a long time it is happening.

You talk about invasion of privacy, well stalking someone is an invasion of privacy, and it happens all the time.

There are loads of things people get up to using alts that interfere with other peoples games, create dis trust for players and make it hard for new players to find there way in the game.

And all that is mainly so some people can make alts for so called role play and not have anyone know who it is.

Now there have people say they need to remain anonymous because it spoils the role play, but no one has even come close to explaining how it spoils the role play.

We are just expected to take their word for it without any real explanation of how it actually does spoil it

Just saying it is important that people do not know is not giving an explanation.

There are some minor things where it does matter, but they are no where near important enough to be more important than reducing the problems that are caused through alts being completely anonymous.

[Perimede]

Aren't we forgetting here what the proposal is trying to achieve? Maybe we should be looking at the outcome rather than the method. If we can agree on outcome then we are more likely to agree on method?

 

As I see it the outcome the OP wants to achieve is one where it is more difficult for troublemakers to cause trouble. The OP is, like many of us, fed up with people behaving badly in game. The specific behaviour being 'mind fucking' as it seems to be called in this thread. There are others. I don't think anybody would say that is not a desired outcome. Maybe we could start a new poll with a question based on that. Looking back over discussions here it is clear that there are certain behaviours that are considered unaceptable both in game and on the forums. Anything that reduces the incidence of these behaviours can't be totally a bad thing, but some compromise is always required to enable things to happen.

 

If loss of alts, or highlighting alts, means people can't bugger about then that's OK, those using alts for sensible purposes will find a workaround. If miscreants are forced to create new paid for accounts they'll think twice. 3dx Chat isn't cheap entertainment.

 

OK the vote shows people want to keep their alts, that's fine. Can we have a new suggestion about how to reduce the incidence of bad behaviour?

[Mar Mohan]

Pandora even if it's a minute alt that is created and used to spread rumors will be seen in the end, hate to break it to you.  I had created Smurfette back in 2015 and I was told it doesn't show on Pandora.  Why?  The reason Pandora either wasn't done back then or when it did come into play it didn't show the previous ones that had been deleted at the time.  So I asked a couple others I know from back in 2015 that did the same thing with an alt that was done out of fun.  Even back then people created alts to use to spite others, no matter what gets done it's not going to change that.  As I said earlier it's going to make more money for the game owners as they'll buy a new account to do it on even if they have the gold.  Why? Ignore comes into play for that as well.  Having a marker to show it's an alt won't make a difference and would cause more distrust in game then there presently exists.  If you haven't seen WC, look at it, on a daily basis there is someone stating that someone else is someone else and that cycle isn't going to stop.

 

Now you can't delete all avis on your account you have to keep one at all times, so there is no way to work around the ignore unless you create a new account - this was suggested by users and put into place by the game owners to help the users because of the alts.  Guess what the work around, buy a new account which guess what, people do just that.

 

It boils down to this people are going to do what they want doesn't matter if we like it or not.  They are going to find a way to work around the system even buying a new account. You can't go by IP addresses because of VPNs, you can ban a credit card but you can go and buy a prepaid one and use it, so there are still ways to work around things put into place.  People do shitty things, the best way to avoid them is to no give a shit enjoy the game, don't give out/share personal shit/information, treat the game for what it is a game and move on with your life. Markers to identify alts on an account aren't going to make as much of a difference as you think, hate to break it to you.

[Niblette]

Honestly there is a lot of talking in code words without people fully explaining what they mean on both sides. I don't really think that people can cause all that much trouble with an alt in the time frame that Pandora takes to update. Someone making an alt to say something in WC and deleting it that sounds risky, expensive, and pointless. I don't think a common identifier is as big a deal as people on both sides are making it. Someone who wants to cause some really drama would make a new account for that.

[Twiggy]

Pandora even if it's a minute alt that is created and used to spread rumors will be seen in the end, hate to break it to you.  I had created Smurfette back in 2015 and I was told it doesn't show on Pandora.  Why?  The reason Pandora either wasn't done back then or when it did come into play it didn't show the previous ones that had been deleted at the time.  So I asked a couple others I know from back in 2015 that did the same thing with an alt that was done out of fun.  Even back then people created alts to use to spite others, no matter what gets done it's not going to change that.  As I said earlier it's going to make more money for the game owners as they'll buy a new account to do it on even if they have the gold.  Why? Ignore comes into play for that as well.  Having a marker to show it's an alt won't make a difference and would cause more distrust in game then there presently exists.  If you haven't seen WC, look at it, on a daily basis there is someone stating that someone else is someone else and that cycle isn't going to stop.

 

Now you can't delete all avis on your account you have to keep one at all times, so there is no way to work around the ignore unless you create a new account - this was suggested by users and put into place by the game owners to help the users because of the alts.  Guess what the work around, buy a new account which guess what, people do just that.

 

It boils down to this people are going to do what they want doesn't matter if we like it or not.  They are going to find a way to work around the system even buying a new account. You can't go by IP addresses because of VPNs, you can ban a credit card but you can go and buy a prepaid one and use it, so there are still ways to work around things put into place.  People do shitty things, the best way to avoid them is to no give a shit enjoy the game, don't give out/share personal shit/information, treat the game for what it is a game and move on with your life. Markers to identify alts on an account aren't going to make as much of a difference as you think, hate to break it to you.

 

Pandora works by logging into the game, either with a program made by the them or the game itself.

It has created a list of all players and would use the account identifier to use the same scripting used in the game to get access to all the information it collects.

It would scan through all the accounts that way, and if at the time it scans you and you have an alt it will record it, if you have deleted it it is not there to be recorded.

Now I tried in a way checking this out, I had put some pics on my profile for just 5 or so minutes and deleted them, then I asked a person I know to see if they were shown on Pandora, they were not.

I hate to break it to you, but Pandora will only record what it finds at the time it scans your account.

 

If all avis had an account identifier on them then when people were to go in say WC and use an alt to spread rumours or what ever people would easily be able to tell who it actually is.

So having an account identifier would have people think twice before doing so.

I have more than 100k gold and I know lots of people have the same, I have never purchased gold, it was just accumulated over time.

So there would be quite a few people that would be able to pay for alts without even having to buy gold.

 

Yes you are right that the devs brought it down to you have to have at least one avi, you cant delete the last as I said.

But do you know how long that exploit was around before that happened, it had been going on for a long time.

There is no way you or anyone else can guaranty that there is not some other way people have found ways around it that we don't know about.

 

Yes trouble makers will buy a new account to keep doing what they do, but not all of them will.

Also there is a lot of things go on where it is not the people that are there just to create trouble do, like stalking, crowding and manipulating for instance.

I think most of those people would not buy an extra account to do that.

[Mar Mohan]

Pandora works by logging into the game, either with a program made by the them or the game itself.  How about contacting them and asking how it works exactly in details

It has created a list of all players and would use the account identifier to use the same scripting used in the game to get access to all the information it collects.

It would scan through all the accounts that way, and if at the time it scans you and you have an alt it will record it, if you have deleted it it is not there to be recorded.

Now I tried in a way checking this out, I had put some pics on my profile for just 5 or so minutes and deleted them, then I asked a person I know to see if they were shown on Pandora, they were not.  It will still show as I've tested it with a friend.  I had a picture up for a minute and it's shown in Pandora.  At the time it didn't show it then wham there it was. 

I hate to break it to you, but Pandora will only record what it finds at the time it scans your account.  That's not an accurate statement.  Even when creating an alt it'll still show it.

 

If all avis had an account identifier on them then when people were to go in say WC and use an alt to spread rumours or what ever people would easily be able to tell who it actually is.  So the devs should make it so the account holder is known instead just an alt.  So if they decide red is for the second avi and green is for the 3rd, but say the main avi you use is the 3rd one, what is going to be the shown for the 1st avi you created.

 

So having an account identifier would have people think twice before doing so.  People are going to do it anyway, it's not going to matter if there is a marker or not, they'll buy a new account and not give a shit to be quite frank about it.

I have more than 100k gold and I know lots of people have the same, I have never purchased gold, it was just accumulated over time.

So there would be quite a few people that would be able to pay for alts without even having to buy gold.  I have a lot of gold and even though I have three avis even if I didn't I'm not going to create an avi to talk shit on someone, I'm direct and say it on my main avi.  Why because I have no reason to do it on another avi as I'm direct and don't hide behind an alt avi to do or say something.

 

Yes you are right that the devs brought it down to you have to have at least one avi, you cant delete the last as I said.  You didn't say it that's why I had to.  That was done well back in 2015 when they did that as I was still in game when they did.

But do you know how long that exploit was around before that happened, it had been going on for a long time.  Since the start of the game like any other game, people are going to do shitty things and it's not going to stop them.

There is no way you or anyone else can guaranty that there is not some other way people have found ways around it that we don't know about.  Even putting on the an account marker to identify it's an alt, people will still work around it by getting a new account, they won't care.

 

Yes trouble makers will buy a new account to keep doing what they do, but not all of them will.  You do realize most do because that way it can't be known it was them.  It's also cheaper then buying XGold to do it, not to mention they keep their avi online so that they can talk shit and see what is going on. 

Also there is a lot of things go on where it is not the people that are there just to create trouble do, like stalking, crowding and manipulating for instance. I know this first hand as it's been done to me.  People don't care, if they are going to stalk, crowd and manipulate they're going to do it and most will do it on an account they know they aren't on ignore by you because you have them on ignore so they don't have a choice but to create a new account to do it.

 

I think most of those people would not buy an extra account to do that.  Do you realize how many times you can go into the game and talk to some people, you'll hear some have multiple accounts that you know of while others you don't unless they tell you.

This is a game and should be played as such.  It's on the internet and should be left there when you log off even if you talk to a few out of game, it's still online and you probably will never meet them and should consider that when talking to them about your life.  Keep real separate and you'll be fine.  While emotions do come into play you have to keep them in check and move on otherwise if you don't you'll be eaten alive by the bullshit that goes on in the game.

[Perimede]

I’ll say again. What is it we want to achieve? What is the outcome?

 

Unless, of course, you’re one of the people who wants to cause trouble in game.

 

We all agree that some behaviours are unacceptable in game. Surely it is a good thing to want to try to reduce their incidence?

 

That is what this thread is about, isn’t it.

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

This thread about poll, this poll about to finish.

[Briana]

Let me give a push to finish it in a hurry

 

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

[Sage Stoner]

We all agree that some behaviours are unacceptable in game. Surely it is a good thing to want to try to reduce their incidence?

 

I don't think we agree on that at all. In fact, I think that many of us tend to paint with too wide a brush and assume that everyone else sees things the way we do. But, in fact, we all come to this game from different backgrounds and with different assumptions. Perhaps this is part of why some aspects of this discussion keep going around in circles.

 

First of all, as to whether there are some behaviors that are unacceptable in game, I think that is too vague a statement. There are some behaviors that are annoying to me personally that are not annoying to others. For example, I hate it when people who I have never chatted with hug me or kiss me on the cheek. On the other hand, my oldest and dearest friend in this game has no problem with hugs and kisses from people she doesn't know. 

 

So no, absolutely not. We do not all agree on what behaviors are acceptable or unacceptable. And we certainly don't agree on how to deal with people who engage in behavior that we ourselves find unacceptable. So, that is another reason that we go around in circles.

 

On the other hand, I suspect that most of us do feel that there are some things the developers should do to provide functionality that allows players to isolate themselves from those that they find disagreeable. I think that most of us would like to see a boot button for public user rooms. I also think that most of us probably think that the Ignore function is a good thing, and would be even better if it were less buggy and worked as intended.

 

So, this thread was originally intended to gauge community interest in a function that identifies the parent account of up to three avatars. The results of the poll show that by and large, only a small percentage of the community thinks that such a function would be useful. Then, as is often the case, a lot of different people started drifting away from that very focused topic, and got into a general discussion about a lot of things different things that the original poll was not intended to address.  

 

OK, so let's stop prolonging the agony of this thread. The advantages and disadvantages of that approach have been discussed to death. Continuing to raise new issues in this thread just adds to the confusion. If people want to continue to discuss other approaches, let's start a new thread and define our terms carefully, so that people don't get a mistaken impression of what is intended. 

[Twiggy]

I actually agree with a lot of what you have said there Sage, but I feel one other thing in particular needs to be added.

That poll shows there are roughly 1 in 4 people are agreeing there are problems, that even though it is the minority is still a rather large amount of people to just be ignored all the time.

No matter what solution is offered it is beaten down and no consideration seems to be shown by some who participate in these threads.

Although I have to say that has not totally been the case this time.

Are you and others now prepared to acknowledge there are rather a large number of people in the game that want something done, even if it is the minority, that we should be considered and not just trampled all over when suggestions are made.

23% of the people are not happy having to face what having anonymous alts produces, and that is still rather a large number of people.

As a lot of people do leave the game because of it, who knows how high that figure would be if it was the other way around, if it had always been we had an account identifier and people were trying to change it to it did not.

I still do not know why it is so important that alts remain completely anonymous for role play or even what type of role play it is where that is needed, that has not been completely explained.

All we get told there is it is very important.

When it is not completely explained it makes it hard to try come up with something that will have everyone happy.

So as a finish to this thread maybe you would like to have a go at explaining what types of role play there are where it is so important ?

[Twiggy]

Hi Rockster,

2 and 3 have already been suggested in other threads where they have not been accepted, well something like 3 was suggested and not really accepted or not but still got nowhere.

 

1 sounds interesting, but I would suggest having a button players could click to ask for that to be sent to them.

A lot of people do not like asking for that type of thing and maybe it could open doors to that being easier to do and more accepted.

But I think you will find that like any other suggestion, it will not be accepted as some role players do not like being asked that question.

[Mar Mohan]

I actually agree with a lot of what you have said there Sage, but I feel one other thing in particular needs to be added.

That poll shows there are roughly 1 in 4 people are agreeing there are problems, that even though it is the minority is still a rather large amount of people to just be ignored all the time.

No matter what solution is offered it is beaten down and no consideration seems to be shown by some who participate in these threads.

Although I have to say that has not totally been the case this time.

Are you and others now prepared to acknowledge there are rather a large number of people in the game that want something done, even if it is the minority, that we should be considered and not just trampled all over when suggestions are made.

23% of the people are not happy having to face what having anonymous alts produces, and that is still rather a large number of people.

As a lot of people do leave the game because of it, who knows how high that figure would be if it was the other way around, if it had always been we had an account identifier and people were trying to change it to it did not.

I still do not know why it is so important that alts remain completely anonymous for role play or even what type of role play it is where that is needed, that has not been completely explained.  Roleplaying a vampire on one avi and a werewolf on another. They don't like each other and therefore could cause a problem with those you roleplay with.  Roleplay a lesbian on one avi and a gay male on another but your straight on your main avi, those you hang around are going to question it.

All we get told there is it is very important.

When it is not completely explained it makes it hard to try come up with something that will have everyone happy.

So as a finish to this thread maybe you would like to have a go at explaining what types of role play there are where it is so important ?

 

 

I thought of an alternative to an @handle which would be visible to anybody and affect everyone and seems to upset those who use alts but in a responsible way.  There are those that use an alt(s) responsibly I'm one of them because I don't believe in hiding behind an alt to have a go at people.  I had created my one alt when I was deleting MarMohan and just wanted a fresh start and just be in touch with a few, I did recreate MarMohan so the name wasn't taken.  I have my build alt which I help those that ask questions about building when I see it in WC.  I've had my share of shit from alts like many others.  I do agree that something needs to be done to get things better but I'm taking that on myself and I don't let those people get to me, I enjoy the game for what it is and leave it there.

 

 

It involves a player being able to view other characters played by someone else on that account, but is instigated by players with consent.

Option 1; Any players have the ability to electively send another player a system-generated "card" which comes as a one-time pop-up window and can be sent as many times as needed. On the card/window it shows alts played by that account and possibly even other accounts from the same ISP. Like a report card. System generated so it is current when sent. It could be used if requested, say someone meets someone else and asks them if they are willing to let them know what their others characters are, not going to go into all the variables, but basically if someone was nervous about another player and they were interacting together one-on-one, the other player has the option of putting their mind at ease by sending them this card.  They're not going to add that option to the game even if we asked for it because it would take more time and coding which I highly doubt they'd do, simply get told ignore and report if we're uncomfortable or feel that something is off.

 

Option 2; When you are not on someone's friend list you have no idea what other characters they play, this does not affect rp'ers, however when you are added to someone's friends list, on their profile a list of their other characters appears. This list is loaded from the system everytime the profile is viewed so is updated automatically. So for Roleplayers if they play a vampire on their other avi the werewolf Roleplay may not allow them to play because of it, hence limiting the user to what they can Roleplay due to their account information being shown. Or they choose to explore the gay/lesbian side and get an attitude because they're straight on their other avi.  Isn't that the point of being able to explore your fantasies.

 

Option 3; There are two levels of friendship, one as is currently, and another elevated one called something like 'trusted', on the normal level of friends it is the same as it is now, but on the second elevated level of friendship this list appears on their profile. You can promote a friend to this upper second level as a way of being more transparent and building trust, you can move friends back and forth from one level to the other as desired.  So you expect a user to give out information to someone they trust only to have it backfire later on when the other person decides to get pissed off at them and tell others about the avi.  Pandora does that already.  The only thing that prevents that is a new account.

 

I've been reading but not responding to posts, but I do take offense to some people saying this is not a problem and it is being overestimated. Just because you have not witnessed it yourself does not make it untrue, using an extreme example but it's kind of related anyway, if you have never been raped or don't personally know someone who has, it's like saying rape does not exist. It's kind of offensive to those who have.  I've not said it's not a problem because I've experienced it first hand with someone on their same account and then someone who has multiple accounts so putting a parent/nickname on all account avis won't solve the problem but force people to make new accounts to do it.  I'd suggest not bringing up rape as it's a very touchy subject as well as Roleplaying someone underage.

[Niblette]

I have an idea but I think I am going to put it in another thread. 

[Briana]

[Sage Stoner]

Are you and others now prepared to acknowledge there are rather a large number of people in the game that want something done, even if it is the minority, that we should be considered and not just trampled all over when suggestions are made.

 

Are you willing to stop hijacking threads to push your own agenda? Are you willing to stop arguing tit for tat, acknowledge the valid parts of opposing viewpoints, and recognize that defending minority rights does not always mean overturning the will of the majority?

 

You probably don't see it this way, but I think that by and large, over the past few years, whenever you and I have been on the opposite side of an issue, I have argued my case much more rationally, much more objectively, and in particular acknowledged the validity of opposing points of view a lot more readily than you ever have.

 

So if you are going to be calling people out, please start by standing in front of a mirror and taking a long, hard look at your own behavior--preferably in a new thread. 

[Twiggy]

Are you willing to stop hijacking threads to push your own agenda? Are you willing to stop arguing tit for tat, acknowledge the valid parts of opposing viewpoints, and recognize that defending minority rights does not always mean overturning the will of the majority?

 

You probably don't see it this way, but I think that by and large, over the past few years, whenever you and I have been on the opposite side of an issue, I have argued my case much more rationally, much more objectively, and in particular acknowledged the validity of opposing points of view a lot more readily than you ever have.

 

So if you are going to be calling people out, please start by standing in front of a mirror and taking a long, hard look at your own behavior--preferably in a new thread. 

 

So yet again you still refuse to answer the question, as usual and is why I can say what you have just said is a pile of crap.

Your argument is always based on things around privacy and such and never being willing to reveal what the actual reason is for so many not wanting anything done where alts can be seen to be alts.

At least Mar has had a go and actually has revealed it.

her response was this...

 

Roleplaying a vampire on one avi and a werewolf on another. They don't like each other and therefore could cause a problem with those you roleplay with.  Roleplay a lesbian on one avi and a gay male on another but your straight on your main avi, those you hang around are going to question it.

 

In the 1st thing where she says about vampires and werewolves I do not agree this to be a valid reason, if people are not adult enough to be able sort out any problems that arise form that then it is their problem and why should it be made everyone elses.

The 2nd thing she says is actually what I feel is the main reason why there are so many do not want alts made apparent and I agree it would be a real problem for those people.

This the reason that you and others have been so unwilling to say for obvious reasons.

It comes back to people being able to create alts of a different sex to their own and not have people know.

If there is an account identifier or alts were known to be alts it would restrict them from being able to do so.

[Sammael]

 

Are you and others now prepared to acknowledge there are rather a large number of people in the game that want something done, even if it is the minority, that we should be considered and not just trampled all over when suggestions are made.

23% of the people are not happy having to face what having anonymous alts produces, and that is still rather a large number of people.

As a lot of people do leave the game because of it, who knows how high that figure would be if it was the other way around, if it had always been we had an account identifier and people were trying to change it to it did not.

 

 

3DX operates in a crowded space there are many games like it. It is the norm in these games for the most part that alts are anonymous. I suspect that those who wish to play alts anonymously would find it easy to go to another game and probably would in sufficient numbers if this was implemented.

 

An example of why? I have an alt in second life. I think 3 people know its also my main. I prefer it like that as its the only way I can get some peace and quiet at times without a barrage of im's. 

 

Sorry some people finding problems doesn't override that luxury in my mind and as I have said before I have seen quite a few of those advocating the change in world chat and in my opinion from the way they behave there they bring the problems on themselves to a large extent (note not saying all do)

[Sage Stoner]

So yet again you still refuse to answer the question, as usual and is why I can say what you have just said is a pile of crap.

 

I did answer your question. It just wasn't the answer you wanted, because it throws your own crap back in your face. 

 

I did not address the same issue that Mar addressed, because I think she addressed that issue more than adequately and I had nothing to add. I will point out, however, that this issue has been addressed adequately before, but you don't agree so you keep harping on it. 

[Perimede]

/me looks around for shoes to throw at Sagie ................ finds she's wasted them all .................................... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!

 

Seriously, I do want to pick up on Sagie's point first. There are behaviours which are unnacceptable in 3dx Chat, the ToS are there for a purpose. Here's listing the ones I did before and maybe one or two others if I can think of them.

 

No Nos - rooms with offensive names, bullying, racism, sexism, I won't mention the r word, wanking off over people without their permission, spreading rumours, agression, arrogance, rudeness, inconsiderateness and so on.

 

Yes's - accepting people as they are, being polite, being considerate, honesty, being supportive of friends, telling good friends when they've been pillocks without making too big an issue of it and so on.

 

As I see it one of the key things Twiggy is concerned about is people who develop friendships and then use that to cause distress. People who develop one to one relationships and then play out, either as an alt or as their original avi. People who then spread rumours about someone. This seems to be a particular form of bullying, unique (maybe) to 3dx Chat. It can cause great distress, Twiggy is right to be concerned about it. I'm not happy about people trying to brush it under the carpet in the name of individual freedom.

 

What concerns me, on skimming through the posts over night, is that there seems to be a big push  arguing for an anything goes ethos in 3dxChat. I suspect from odd little things I've overheard or been told in game that there is some seriously dodgey stuff going on behind the scenes. OK if it's in private then you can't really do anything about it, and it is in private anyway. I suspect that the dodgey rooms issue, which has cropped up from time to time, arises to try and promote that agenda. OK I can't prove this and don't expect anybody to agree with me, it's just an intuition. The fact I've been right about some things before does not mean I'm right all the time.

 

I do think this, though. This anything goes mentality is what's behind the problems we get with behaviours in game, and the ones we've had on the forums. These debates are about trying to find out what people see as the accepted norms. I think I can safely say that most users don't want an anything goes thing going on, they want to have a bit of fun with their mates, make new friends, make nice places to go and share, meet people they wouldn't otherwise get to know. Some of us are concerned that this anything goes thing reduces the fun we can have with our friends - and yes the worry that one of your friends has an alt and is saying stuff behind your back is not exactly conducive to a warm and fuzzy feeling.

 

Ex has argued very strongly that most people don't use alts for nefarious activities. Basicaly that means Ex wouldn't dream of behaving like that as an alt. That is correct, and the vast majority of people who use alts are the same. Twiggy recognises this in her arguments but seems to have to keep saying over and over again that the minority of people who use alts to cause trouble are a problem. Just because Ex, or anybodyy else for that matter, wouldn't use alts for this doesn't mean to say that the minority who do don't cause harm, trouble or distress. The focus of the debate is those people who deliberately cause trouble, I don't think that includes any of us involved in this thread. Well I hope not anyway!

 

There are people who've argued that it is pointless trying to deal with this because some people will always behave badly. That is so defeatist - In rl shall we stop catching, prosecuting and jailing murderers because it won't stop some people murdering? As I said before, there are some behaviours that are not accepted in rl society, 3dx Chat, and all other virtual worlds, are exactly the same.

 

There is a compromise in there somewhere if you chose to go looking for it and are prepared to accept it. Come on guys lets have a go at approaching it that way?

 

So maybe we could be looking at what behaviours the troublemakers get invovled in, get a sense of who they are in general terms (not individuals), get a sense of who they affect in general terms (not individuals) and then start thinking about ways of mitigating the disruption they cause.

 

One last point, the devs define what is and what is not acceptable behaviour by defining the ToS and then implementing them in terms of action. We have seen that they do act on reports, even if it isn't always particularly quickly. Nobody wants making reports to intrude on their having fun which is how troublemakers get away with it. That suggests an additional mechanism would be a good idea, in the absence of continous, on-line, active moderation.

[Sage Stoner]

No Nos - rooms with offensive names, bullying, racism, sexism, I won't mention the r word, wanking off over people without their permission, spreading rumours, agression, arrogance, rudeness, inconsiderateness and so on.

 

 

What has any of that got to do with whether or not there should be a common parent nickname?

[Perimede]

Quite a lot if you read what I've said in context .................................. grrrrrr!!!!!!! /me thinks Sagie has been spending too much time disturbing a certain Panda's cocoa experience.

[Sage Stoner]

Quite a lot if you read what I've said in context .................................. grrrrrr!!!!!!! /me thinks Sagie has been spending too much time disturbing a certain Panda's cocoa experience.

 

Actually, no. I have been spending my time trying to keep this thread on topic.