Wintermute Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 This is not about people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarMohan Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I'll reply to the rest of your post later, I just wanted to chime in really quick to state that I am in no way "going at you." I am replying to a thread, the likes of which I have been participating in for well over a year, stating my opinion. Nor am I the only person who feels this way as I am sure you can ascertain through the seven pages in this thread, and countless others should you find it in yourself to use the search function.I'll give my reply just as well. Like you, I am simply replying to the topic like many others here have, all of which have made points for and against it some not that it's a friend but in general. I have read this entire topic so I understand what's been said, with both sides of the fence pointed out, I've read enough topics that both sides that are no just posted here and post my opinion as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeloo Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Eeeeh ... Is it only me or this thread is turning into a fight between 2 peoples trying to convince the other that he/she is wrong ? Dont dream , each peoples in this thread is too stubborn to leave a single inch of land . As a result , Humans will all fight each others and in the end it will left a blood feast for us Vampires ^,..,^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malvasiah Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Not only you Leelo...This debate, which started constructive and interesting, has gone totally off the track.And seeing these two intellectual giants debating who got the biggest is not even mildly amusing..... much less constructive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbash Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I agree, please remain on topic to do with constructive criticism of this chat. Don't steer off track to try and get the one up on eachother, so any post that is like that after this post will be removed. Kind RegardsAsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callista Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Well, this thread went spiraling into a whole deeper debate in a flash. Just for the record, after reading this thread and some of brun's posts I see how my suggestion could cause harm. Yeah, name coloring can be a bad idea if it is something that in the long run will cause labelling and discrimination, I'll concede on that regard. Still, there is one thing I'll say though, it's a bit contradictory to mention harassment against people using alt for privacy while the harassment alts do cause is so quickly dismissed and well... just ignored. Does that mean that to protect people from the possibility harassment another group of people - even if a small one as some believe - needs to keep being harassed? Whether you've been here a day, a year or a month, alt harrassment does happen and it often happens even to people who are pretty good at protecting themselves, it can be something as small as spying and slandering or something really disgusting as faking deaths for sympathies, should this form of harassment go on because possible solutions will also cause harassment? Can't we all just think on a compromise? If something I noticed being here for 8 months now is that this thing happens often, maybe to some more than others since there are people who go on their entire time here without experiencing it.. or at the very least not being aware of it happening to them, ignorance is bliss right? (No sarcasm) Or maybe I and those I've known here are just downright unlucky. In my opinion it is a valid thing to be worried about, we pay to be in here, is it really too much to ask for means to diminish drama? So, what is a good compromise so both sides can get to play the game the way they want without being harassed for being an alt or harassed by an alt? Stricter rules in regards of harassment and drama? Limiting people who abuse alts to have only character (after it's proved ofc)? Any solution really, what we all need to do is stop derailing these threads and think on a way that both sides get some form of solution both find acceptable. A lot of people argue that this is a game and it's players should be the ones to protect themselves from shitty people. A valid argument but well... for the same reason of this being a game not only it's meant to be an entertainment product but it's also one that we pay real money to engage with, shouldn't there be at least some form of protection, not to people's feelings, but to it's entertainment value? Which well... suffers if there is the possibility of you being harassed in some way, even if some argue that alt harassment is not a frequent thing it's still a thing for a few players that often makes them leave the game, should nothing really be done about it? I mean, a lot of successful MMO's out there have forms of punishment for similar kind of behaviour, going as far from a imposed silence on a player to a downright ban, even if people can use different accounts I think this is a lame excuse for not implementing rules about it. MarMohan and Riela 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riela Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I am honestly ashamed of how this topic went, how many people can look and appear as selfish ****... " not my problem grow thicker skin " is one of the worst excuses here I seen. Few of the people here who blatantly protect every argument against doing anything are people that run alts and use it to fuck up other people lives but I am Not going to name shame here anyone. As for other arguing oh I didn't had drama here not my problem... well that's nice you didn't had one... how about those that were bullied to quit? how about those that got hurt and exploited so badly they had to seek help? oh you will just said its their fault play the game as intended. HOW is this game intended? 3DXChat is the web's newest downloadable interactive game strictly made for adults who want to connect and feel a unique sensual experience in the virtual 3D world of gaming. Looking for hot 3D virtual sex with a real partner? Join the 3DXChat community with the 3DXChat client. Chat, date and enjoy lifelike 3D sex. Enter the world where all your secret desires come true, where you can be anyone and where you can do anything you want.this is official description on main page. So it wasn't intended just for sex. Ofcourse it includes the RP part as well. BUT that should come from mutual respect between RPs and other players. And not that person who is here for other reasons than you should hide and be scared to talk to someone because they got hurt over and over again or quit. I had friends bullied here, I was victim of people who loved to throw suicide word around and while I have thick enough skin.My friend didn't and spent nights crying, searching internet looking for any details she could find to stop that person until she found its bullshit and quit the game for good. How are developers helping to protect community? I have report i wrote 2 months ago it still marks as not read. I propose few fixes ->make global account ID such as riela #134 that would show on every alt of every person here.design marriage contract something like SL have, meaning if you are married you cannot fuck without other person giving you yes for certain amount of time as well expiration date if person quitdesign private rooms such as the one in NC and always open generic fuck room in the list of the rooms where this ID wouldn't be shown OR allow user wear mask in the specific locations which would make them anonymous, but still keep the marriage contract in check.here you have your fetishes satisfied while making sure people will keep out of hurting people with alts unless they buy second account. it's not going to help with cheating partners that much but certainly it's going to help with 2 faced jerks. And please instead of oh it's bullshit ... give us argument why my idea is bad and why it wouldn't work. what are flaws and if they can be polished or the idea as whole is stupid. MarMohan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenn Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 This is going too far for me right now. I'll step back a little.Still voting no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurJean Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I see your points Riela and I am truly sorry you witnessed such disgusting behaviour against your friends. But is it me or your post sounds a little aggressive ? (english is not my native I can be mistaken).My concern is that people here presents this topic as if such bad behaviours are a common thing, that's why i was wondering why i did not met such problems for now. I will be sorry if witch hunts were done in this game against innocent rpers just because they have Alts. Nevertheless you are proposing something that could be considered as a compromise, that could allow the lambs to be protected from the wolves, and rpers to have specific places to play. I could support that. What I had in mind was a specific and descriptive warning note send to each people who subscribe, with extensive details of what they could meet in game and warning them to act with caution before giving IRL details or whatever. Should it be not enough ? A warning is not a protection per se but it could be useful. Just my two cents in a constructive way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarMohan Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 When people give an opposing opinion that's exactly what it is. I do not and never will one up on someone, but I won't shut up because someone wants and expects me to.I'm all for a constructive changes that allow the users more safety while they play the game. MarMohan and brun 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeloo Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Well, this thread went spiraling into a whole deeper debate in a flash. Just for the record, after reading this thread and some of brun's posts I see how my suggestion could cause harm. Yeah, name coloring can be a bad idea if it is something that in the long run will cause labelling and discrimination, I'll concede on that regard. Still, there is one thing I'll say though, it's a bit contradictory to mention harassment against people using alt for privacy while the harassment alts do cause is so quickly dismissed and well... just ignored. Does that mean that to protect people from the possibility harassment another group of people - even if a small one as some believe - needs to keep being harassed? Whether you've been here a day, a year or a month, alt harrassment does happen and it often happens even to people who are pretty good at protecting themselves, it can be something as small as spying and slandering or something really disgusting as faking deaths for sympathies, should this form of harassment go on because possible solutions will also cause harassment? Can't we all just think on a compromise? Well , make deleting avatars cost Xgold then not able to create a new one before 48h will greatly reduce the number of peoples doing harrasment on others . If this was worth 20000XGold , the one who want cancel his/her avatar will think twice before canceling . Maybe he/she will do once , maybe two , but when they will have lost 40000XGold they will think "hey this slow down fast !!" An d even if they cancel their avatars untill they have no XGold left , when their money holder will be empty they will stop . After this , as i said in another post , it's up to us as hmmm ... lets say "ancients" to treat any player with "empty profiles" like new players and not like alts . To me it's best to treat an alt like a new player than the other way. Camden, Maxxim, Elenn and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowbelle Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 People can hurt others on mains too. When someone is hurting you or your friends shouldn't one be blocking them? And blocking them, would it not block their alts too? I am confused as to how the additional feature of having colored names and global id will solve this issue. Other than, expose those who just want a moments peace. I don't think the original idea was intended to be used this way, but arguing for the idea for this purpose seems eristic. xMaceyx, Leeloo, brun and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxim Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Well , make deleting avatars cost Xgold then not able to create a new one before 48h will greatly reduce the number of peoples doing harrasment on others . If this was worth 20000XGold , the one who want cancel his/her avatar will think twice before canceling . Maybe he/she will do once , maybe two , but when they will have lost 40000XGold they will think "hey this slow down fast !!" An d even if they cancel their avatars untill they have no XGold left , when their money holder will be empty they will stop . After this , as i said in another post , it's up to us as hmmm ... lets say "ancients" to treat any player with "empty profiles" like new players and not like alts . To me it's best to treat an alt like a new player than the other way. This makes the most sense out of everything I've seen in this thread so far. If someone is a chronic alt abuser they will have to pay as they would if they had to get a new account. Perhaps the xgold cost could start at some amount and build up to a maximum after a certain amount of deletions. Leeloo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeloo Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 And yes , like snowbelle say , and like i probably said earlyer in this thread , if you discover an alt that you think will harrass you , just ignore him/her . And anything that could lead to a "witch hunt" isn't a good idea . Let me tell a story : There is 2 peoples in this game who try to break my couple with my wife ( in game and in the forum ) since soon one year now . I ignored every new avatar of them i discovered ( in game and here in the forum ) and my wife no . What is the result ? They harrass my wife and not me . So when someone harrass you , my advice is : PUSH THIS BIG RED BUTTON "IGNORE" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skar Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Well , make deleting avatars cost Xgold then not able to create a new one before 48h will greatly reduce the number of peoples doing harrasment on others . If this was worth 20000XGold , the one who want cancel his/her avatar will think twice before canceling . Maybe he/she will do once , maybe two , but when they will have lost 40000XGold they will think "hey this slow down fast !!" An d even if they cancel their avatars untill they have no XGold left , when their money holder will be empty they will stop . After this , as i said in another post , it's up to us as hmmm ... lets say "ancients" to treat any player with "empty profiles" like new players and not like alts . To me it's best to treat an alt like a new player than the other way. What is propose here just can't work. It would kill the Roleplaying community of this game quicker then Raid spray on a fly. Roleplayer need to been able to switch Role on a regular basis and changing clothing is not enough as the name of the avatar will say a lot about the Role and it prevent confusion with other avi the person might have. So the capacity to make new avatar is needed. Charging XGold for creating avatar would have massive negative effect for players that only want to roleplay, forcing them to buy extra gold only to being able to RP. I got no issue in calling this idea a very terrible idea and it totally unpractical. Making new avatar should remain free if we want to keep our Roleplaying community. Elenn, Riela and Nymphpott 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeloo Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I can also tell you story of rape victims here, of jerk with 9 accounts, of the girl that got call in middle of night etc etcI dont see the utility of this line here . In game you cant have rapes as no one can force you to have sex . If it's rapes in real , they have nothing to do with alts. For the 9 accounts , well ignore 9 of the avatars and the problem is solved About the call in middle of the night , i suppose you mean phone calls . If a girl is harrassed by phone in the night , there is nothing to do with alts either , it's because she gave her phone number to the wrong person . She made a mistake , for sure , but this really have nothing to do with alts . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowbelle Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Solution: Right click > Ignore pashion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riela Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Solution: Right click > Ignore How is that prevention? ignore happens after you get hurt not before. MarMohan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowbelle Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 How is that prevention? ignore happens after you get hurt not before. You really can't tell when someone is hurting you before it happens? I mean it is a live process. Ignore can happen during the process as well. -- This doesn't make any sense. If your friend X turns on you on her main without warning, how is knowing whether they are an alt or not going to prevent you from getting hurt? I would think you would ignore her, so if she makes any alts to attack you again she is already on ignore. That goes for strangers too. Elenn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skar Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 You really can't tell when someone is hurting you before it happens? Ignore can happen during the process as well. Ok... Usually you can't know something before you are aware of it...Usually getting hurt does hold a element of surprises or denial. With the very exception of maybe smashing my fingers with an hammer for the heck of it. That, I will see it coming. Getting hurt often come from getting invest emotionally in a situation and then a feeling of betrayal. I can't see how you can ignore someone you were trusting, maybe too much before they do anything hurtful. It start to sound like that movie Minority Report. I usually recommand to Ignore People as soon as the Drama hit or start to get unmanageable. Ignore early is the best way to go. But ignoring before getting hurt is just impossible, except if you are precognition skills. Riela 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowbelle Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Ok... Usually you can't know something before you are aware of it...Usually getting hurt does hold a element of surprises or denial. With the very exception of maybe smashing my fingers with an hammer for the heck of it. That, I will see it coming. Getting hurt often come from getting invest emotionally in a situation and then a feeling of betrayal. I can't see how you can ignore someone you were trusting, maybe too much before they do anything hurtful. It start to sound like that movie Minority Report. I usually recommand to Ignore People as soon as the Drama hit or start to get unmanageable. Ignore early is the best way to go. But ignoring before getting hurt is just impossible, except if you are precognition skills. I think you are taking it too literally lol. You really think knowing that the person you trust is on an alt is going to *prevent* them from hurting you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skar Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I think you are taking it too literally lol. You really think knowing that the person you trust is on an alt is going to *prevent* them from hurting you? Well, every player got a choice when they join a game like 3dxchat or name any other on the business. And they choice is the level of emotional investment they will put into the game. For a lot of players when they start, it not something they control very well and they get caught by surprise on how emotionally invested they get in a game like this. It part of the reason so much new player end up getting hurt. But with experience throught those games, you learn to draw the line more easily. Now, about your question : If I learn that someone (AVI) I talk on a regular basis is an alt from somone else I know and the person hide it from me, well, I will sure have a talk with that person and see what are his intentions. From that talk, then I got a choice as how much invested I want to be with that friend. Maybe, he will loose my trust, maybe not. Maybe, I will just decide to push him aside and move on, maybe not. Does that person still got the capacity to hurt me ? Not as much since I probably decided to not invest much feeling in that friendship and I won't be affected as much since the element of surprise won't be there and as much as I might be in denial, it will be my responsability and only my own as I didn't pay attention enough to the signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowbelle Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Well, every player got a choice when they join a game like 3dxchat or name any other on the business. And they choice is the level of emotional investment they will put into the game. For a lot of players when they start, it not something they control very well and they get caught by surprise on how emotionally invested they get in a game like this. It part of the reason so much new player end up getting hurt. But with experience throught those games, you learn to draw the line more easily. Now, about your question : If I learn that someone (AVI) I talk on a regular basis is an alt from somone else I know and the person hide it from me, well, I will sure have a talk with that person and see what are his intentions. From that talk, then I got a choice as how much invested I want to be with that friend. Maybe, he will loose my trust, maybe not. Maybe, I will just decide to push him aside and move on, maybe not. Does that person still got the capacity to hurt me ? Not as much since I probably decided to not invest much feeling in that friendship and I won't be affected as much since the element of surprise won't be there and as much as I might be in denial, it will be my responsability and only my own as I didn't pay attention enough to the signs. Okay that is a very good example, I admit it would be nice to have a solution for it. But that solution is not the proposed idea. Because the idea opens a new set of issues related to anonymity. You want to solve a case where 1 in X people are affected, while opening an issue where practically everyone is affected. However, consider that alt that is befriending you to be a real stranger, they could hurt you just as much as your friend. So the fact that knowing if someone is an alt or a main has no impact on what they can do to hurt you. Maxxim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToxicallySweet Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I feel that no matter what is done or not done people will still be hurt by something/anything. The ones that abuse it will find another way to do the screwed up things they do. It sucks I know but won't change. All you can do is learn from it, ignore if need, report if its real bad and move on and if that don't work maybe leave take a break and try again later. I understand both sides but my vote is no. TheGreatNyeh, Maxxim, Leeloo and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TashaTight Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Just speaking out of my hat you said mostly new people who end getting hurt, how bout maybe finding a few "trust worthy people" who could act as a mentor program for new players, volunteers getting approved or such. Doubt it would take anything from anyone that way, would also give more fragile new players a safety net of a sort. Not sure if its a good solution but second life had a mentor program it was arguably a lot different from what capacity it would probably be here, but maybe it would shelter the more vulnerable people here a bit more from getting hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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