DJing in public places... Rules make no sense

[JessicaX]

The thing is the recent disussion was just the drop that made the barrel overflow. The whole drama about DJing and not DJing and who can and who cant is going on since some years now and it got worse this year... so I can really understand why Achilles did what he did.

 

Its been building up along time now and some of us saw it coming already, as beeing a DJ or DJ host is a very unthankful job and instead of appreciation you get more drama and stuff. So now we have it... no more public DJing which should make everyone happy. Especially thoose that were very displeased with the music selection that was played here. The other half wont even notice a difference so its all good.

 

I just feel a bit sad for thoose people that actually enjoyed what we did but its always like that. Good stuff dies to the hands of people that are never happy.

 

With this reply I am out of this thread. I guess we better just deal with the current situation. Nothing we say will change what happened.

 

You still don't seem to understand the issue but I will try one more time.

 

The original rules were: stream legal music.. I did that. Achilles knew that I used Content Unlimited. There are 5 public DJs that I know of that use it. Could be more but I didnt ask everyone.

 

He found out that I record my mixes and upload them to mixcloud. Sorry.. not his business, not yours, and not anyone else's. I did not stream recorded mixes and I never streamed illegal music. The meta data shows every track that I streamed. I dont care if you buy your music and you are against subscription services. The music is just as legal as what you use.

 

As retaliation, he took away the ability to use Content Unlimited in public areas. I made a post explaining that CU is legal. 

 

Now... we are here. 

[FairyDust]

 

Content Unlimited monitors and fixes their copyright issues, if you read the post that you linked. It is clear they took actions and are very transparent about it.

 

 

It is a subscription service. If 100 people sign up for 9.99/month and use 249 songs, the artists get $4/song. However, its not that simple. CU doesn't provide money to artists from the subscriptions, artists and producers are priced on a flat rate. They make a deal with production companies, like 10% of the sales for for artist payment.

 

 

Stop worrying about the metadata, anyone can fake the metadata. I can rip songs with torrents with proper metadata, you won't even know it. You are micromanaging your DJs, that is why these issues arise. Your DJs don't make any money for the effort they put in streaming in 3dx. They have no personal advantage in being sneaky. They do it because it is fun and want to give 3dx users a good time. Trust your DJs and verify that the source is legal. It is clear that CU is legal. 

 

Re: Spotify, you can stream Spotify publicly if you are a business: https://www.soundtrackyourbrand.com/

 

after reading all the post and ALL of Jessica's inserts, Snow's 3rd paragraph here makes the most sense. I can't see where and how CU is illegal. I understand and really appreciate Achilles stand on illegal music but as long as the DJs are using legal / paid for music, what is the issue?

[Guest SayaX]

Claiming the moral high ground because you claim to buy your music from iTunes or Amazon or wherever does not make it legal either. When you buy a track you do not buy the right to stream it. It is for your own personal use. Unless you pay a licence fee that legally allows you to stream to an audience then 99% of DJs here are illegal. To legally stream here in the UK at least it would cost £600 per year per DJ to stream legally.

 

People are buying their music legally but the majority do not have a streaming licence (that £600 part).

[Guest RobT]

this is really all a moot point since he ended it. TBH i thought he would after the last long winded thread. The guy doesnt need the hassle. He was offering it out of his own pocket. Just like the french touche situation. At the end of the day it was entirely up to him who did what on his servers. 

 

I wish to thank him , he did it for a long time and caught grief for making 3dx more enjoyable . Enjoy a little peace now achillies, you have earned it

[JessicaX]

this is really all a moot point since he ended it. TBH i thought he would after the last long winded thread. The guy doesnt need the hassle. He was offering it out of his own pocket. Just like the french touche situation. At the end of the day it was entirely up to him who did what on his servers. 

 

I wish to thank him , he did it for a long time and caught grief for making 3dx more enjoyable . Enjoy a little peace now achillies, you have earned it

 

it is entirely up to him what was done on his servers... such as "streaming legal music" however... it is no one else's business what is done on one's PC, such as recording a mix. That's what caused all this. Me recording a mix has nothing to do with streaming to a public location.

 

Why is this so hard to understand?

[JessicaX]

Claiming the moral high ground because you claim to buy your music from iTunes or Amazon or wherever does not make it legal either. When you buy a track you do not buy the right to stream it. It is for your own personal use. Unless you pay a licence fee that legally allows you to stream to an audience then 99% of DJs here are illegal. To legally stream here in the UK at least it would cost £600 per year per DJ to stream legally.

 

People are buying their music legally but the majority do not have a streaming licence (that £600 part).

 

The licences were in place for public streams Saya. When it comes to public performances, the licensing responsibility falls on the owner of the server or the venue (for RL performances). If the venue or stream owner has the license, anyone who performs in that venue or on that server is protected. But that's not what all this is about.

[Shanti]

I'm not going to pretend I understand much in the legal aspects of all this, and it seems to be going in a pointless circle but I will say this..

 

After the most recent DJ incident on this forum, I thought many saw how a situation made public would turn out, and that not all topics should be made public.

I believe this should have remained between the concerned two, or at worst within the public DJs circle only, on a groupchat or whatever available. It would have certainly prevented non-involved people from chiming in, and this may not (or may) have blown out this far.

 

@Achilles : You made a decision, so now I'll strongly suggest you to stick with it and not go back on it. It doesn't take anything from anyone, we are still able to stream our own music as it pleases us. And again a big thank you for all you have done.

 

@Developpers : It's time for you to step up. It's clear that DJs are profitable to you and your game, since they entertain your customers and bring the public maps to life most of the time. So now you can either decide to invest in your own server and handle it on your own terms, or leave it as it is and provide only radios. Which is fine too, since it's your game afterall. Even if it is a voluntarily service, I think it's unfair that all the side effects have to be met by individuals, when bottom line is, only your game and your customers gain profit from it.

 

For the last year (bit more even), DJ issues has been one of the most beaten horse of this forum, and it's tiring. Not only for DJs but also for everyone else who comes accross it, so I hope this puts an end to the matter.

 

 

Thank you to Achilles and all the DJs, for spending time, money and heart into entertaining the masses. Y'all didn't get anything from it, but again I, and I'm sure many are thankful.

[Claymore]

@Developpers : It's time for you to step up. It's clear that DJs are profitable to you and your game, since they entertain your customers and bring the public maps to life most of the time. So now you can either decide to invest in your own server and handle it on your own terms, or leave it as it is and provide only radios. Which is fine too, since it's your game afterall. Even if it is a voluntarily service, I think it's unfair that all the side effects have to be met by individuals, when bottom line is, only your game and your customers gain profit from it.

 

This. Whatever perspective you take on the matter, it is clear live DJ sets mean a hell of a lot, to a hell of a lot. And by any measure that means $$$ to the devs.

[Guest RobT]

honestly why would they. first they have to incur the cost of the server which cuts into there bottom line. secondly they have to find someone to run the dj stuff much like achillies did to make sure everything is on the up and up and then put up with the bullshit thats sure to follow. While i am sure some are here for just the djing im not so sure that number is big enough that it will matter sub wise to them one way or the other.

 

While Shanti is 100 percent correct, Not sure i see it happening.  just my opinion ofc. i hope i am wrong because i enjoyed the partys that i did go to

[Claymore]

honestly why would they. first they have to incur the cost of the server which cuts into there bottom line. secondly they have to find someone to run the dj stuff much like achillies did to make sure everything is on the up and up and then put up with the bullshit thats sure to follow. While i am sure some are here for just the djing im not so sure that number is big enough that it will matter sub wise to them one way or the other.

I here what you're saying but Sin has less than half the numbers it normally would at this time and Fresco is a graveyard atm. Maybe co-incidence, maybe not...

[Claymore]

Can I just go on record... after 20 mins in-game, having no live DJs sucks. Fact. Over 'n' out...

[Guest RobT]

if i can ask, can people dj in room live still or is it just the streams now?

[JessicaX]

if i can ask, can people dj in room live still or is it just the streams now?

 

Just public streams. Rooms still work like they always have.

[Guest Twiggy]

After all the crap you Jessica posted in DocQs post about respect, team play and not bringing the argument into the public, you pull this.

What do you feel gives you the right to do what you were so strongly saying shouldn't be dome back then.

It is interesting how some people in here think they have a right to do what they say others cannot.

 

And as you were one that was telling DocQ that the only way to get to be a public DJ is to keep sending Achilles PMs until he responds, which is what started the problem there, I guess in a way you helped to cause that one to.

 

As I said before in these forums, the only way to really find out what makes streaming music over the Internet legal is to phone the agency in your country and find out straight from them.

I say phone because you will find they don't respond to emails.

If you were to do that you will find out the things you are saying are not exactly right, in fact a long way from it.

There are simply to many websites and services on the Internet doing it wrong and claiming they are legal, or leaving things out in their terms that has you think you are covered.

I am not sure how Achilles was going about things but the information he had to pull from the metadata in songs was vital if he was doing things legally.

It is not only royalties have to be paid for each song play, it is also for the amount of people it is streamed to.

If a song is played in a location where there is 100 people then royalties are due for 100 people, not just the one stream you pay for from Content Unlimited or iTunes.

From what I understand Achilles was paying those royalties and needed the correct information to be on each song played so he could do so.

 

Now I might be wrong, but that is my understanding of what was going on and why he was so insistent on things being done a certain way.

In none of the information you have shown does it get into licensing for streaming, only for you to be able to use the music to DJ, and I think you will find out it only gives you the right to DJ to an audience where you are and not to stream it out to others.

But i could be wrong, it may have changed since I had to check it all out, that was over 2 years ago.

But as I said, if you want to check it out and see what is legal and what is not, don't go off what is said on these websites, phone the agency and get it straight from them.

[JessicaX]

After all the crap you Jessica posted in DocQs post about respect, team play and not bringing the argument into the public, you pull this.

What do you feel gives you the right to do what you were so strongly saying shouldn't be dome back then.

It is interesting how some people in here think they have a right to do what they say others cannot.

 

And as you were one that was telling DocQ that the only way to get to be a public DJ is to keep sending Achilles PMs until he responds, which is what started the problem there, I guess in a way you helped to cause that one to.

 

As I said before in these forums, the only way to really find out what makes streaming music over the Internet legal is to phone the agency in your country and find out straight from them.

I say phone because you will find they don't respond to emails.

If you were to do that you will find out the things you are saying are not exactly right, in fact a long way from it.

There are simply to many websites and services on the Internet doing it wrong and claiming they are legal, or leaving things out in their terms that has you think you are covered.

I am not sure how Achilles was going about things but the information he had to pull from the metadata in songs was vital if he was doing things legally.

It is not only royalties have to be paid for each song play, it is also for the amount of people it is streamed to.

If a song is played in a location where there is 100 people then royalties are due for 100 people, not just the one stream you pay for from Content Unlimited or iTunes.

From what I understand Achilles was paying those royalties and needed the correct information to be on each song played so he could do so.

 

Now I might be wrong, but that is my understanding of what was going on and why he was so insistent on things being done a certain way.

In none of the information you have shown does it get into licensing for streaming, only for you to be able to use the music to DJ, and I think you will find out it only gives you the right to DJ to an audience where you are and not to stream it out to others.

But i could be wrong, it may have changed since I had to check it all out, that was over 2 years ago.

But as I said, if you want to check it out and see what is legal and what is not, don't go off what is said on these websites, phone the agency and get it straight from them.

 

Well you obviously didn't read anything. 

 

Achilles found out i record my mixes and upload them to mixcloud. Is it illegal? Yes it is... but its none of his business what I do on my own in private. To retaliate against me for something I do in private and change rules makes no sense. Its no one business what I do on my PC. Not yours, not his, not anyone else's. Me recording a mix on my PC has absolutely NOTHING to do with streaming to a 3dx public location. When I streamed, i ALWAYS followed the rules and I always used legal music. What happens on the 3dx stream servers are HIS concern. What I do on my own PC is MY concern.

 

Why do I have to keep repeating this and why or how is it that no one can understand the issue here?

 

It's also strange to me that so many people condone this type of behavior. 

[JessicaX]

No royalties being paid. Not sure where that came from. Also, this has nothing to do with Doc's situation, so i;m not even sure how you can compare the 2. All the information I puled from from the RIAA website.. not some random run of the mill website. I posted all my sources and made it as easy as possible for people to understand. 

 

The issue here is that people can't seem to grasp the concept that what a person does in private on thier own PC is not your business, nor is it his, and even if you disagree with or look down upon what they do, that's not excuse to retaliate against them and affect 5 DJs in the process. Im just the only one that has voiced what is happening. 

I did nothing wrong and broke NO RULES while on his servers, but because I did something IN PRIVATE ON MY OWN PC that he didn't agree with, i was retaliated against. Yes, i will certainly stand up for myself and make a public case of this because people should know, and I would hope that anyone else in my position would do the same. I'm sorry, but it's "bullying" in every sense of the word.

[Briana]

Jessica ,you probably have the right to say doing what you want on your PC is your business, but you can't say to Achille to not be worry about contents origin where it come from or been pirated or not, cause 3dx is a public site owned by private company (Sexgamedevil) and they have responsibility to respect the laws, It's like letting robber using public site server owner to sell stolen items. Just my point of view

[Guest Twiggy]

Your kidding me right ?

Your original post does say about you uploading to Mixcloud, but in that same post you mention how you use content unlimited and that 5 other DJs do the same to supply music and requests to people in 3DX.

You have posted screenshots and links and such trying to show it as making it legal and questioned why Achilles chose to dis allow it.

Why wasn't this all done in private ?

Why did you bring it into the public arena the way you have ? especially after the dozens of comments you made in docs post so strongly protesting him bringing his dispute with Achilles into the public arena.

What was it you said there, you use to support him but he has lost all respect you had for him for doing that.

 

I actually agree with you that he should have kept it in private, but this, this is something so much more so should have been and not discussed in public.

You have now destroyed the Public DJing.

[JessicaX]

Your kidding me right ?

Your original post does say about you uploading to Mixcloud, but in that same post you mention how you use content unlimited and that 5 other DJs do the same to supply music and requests to people in 3DX.

You have posted screenshots and links and such trying to show it as making it legal and questioned why Achilles chose to dis allow it.

Why wasn't this all done in private ?

Why did you bring it into the public arena the way you have ? especially after the dozens of comments you made in docs post so strongly protesting him bringing his dispute with Achilles into the public arena.

What was it you said there, you use to support him but he has lost all respect you had for him for doing that.

 

I actually agree with you that he should have kept it in private, but this, this is something so much more so should have been and not discussed in public.

You have now destroyed the Public DJing.

 

Wow, i wish people would READ!

 

I do not have the power to take the streams offline. I simply made light of a VERY unfair situation where i was retaliated against and everyone thinks thats ok Let me ask you Twiggy... look at my last 4 or 5 posts since you obviously cant be bothered to read it all, and tell me if you think how he reacted and what he expects of people is proper. Id like an answer to this question. What does what I do on my PC have ANYTHING to do with him??? and why can no one answer this one question for me? He is not the internet Police for 3dx. 

 

I was always legal when i streamed. For the 8th time i have to explain this... When I record a mix on my PC... this act has NOTHING to do with streaming to public 3dx location. Just because you or someone else doesn't agree with me doing this, does not give you or anyone else the moral right to retaliate against me. Or do you disagree with this statement also? 

[JessicaX]

Jessica ,you probably have the right to say doing what you want on your PC is your business, but you can't say to Achille to not be worry about contents origin where it come from or been pirated or not, cause 3dx is a public site owned by private company (Sexgamedevil) and they have responsibility to respect the laws, It's like letting robber using public site server owner to sell stolen items. Just my point of view

 

When did I say to not worry about things being pirated? CU is VERY legal.  Where did you get this assumption?

 

When I 1st did my test spin with him, he asked me where my content came from and I showed him my subscription and VDJ licence. I am not going to pull others in here by mentioning names but the other DJs affected by this are active and loved by a LOT of people.

[Briana]

When did I say to not worry about things being pirated? CU is VERY legal.  Where did you get this assumption?

 

When I 1st did my test spin with him, he asked me where my content came from and I showed him my subscription and VDJ licence. I am not going to pull others in here by mentioning names but the other DJs affected by this are active and loved by a LOT of people.

Cuz Achilles said : ''But again, it's not possible to check of all DJ's each month a License like this and also is it not possible to difference this stuff with illegal stuff about the Metadata!''

I don't wanna take position, I just said my point of view about how and why Achilles apply some strict rules, it's not his fault you know

[JessicaX]

Cuz Achilles said : ''But again, it's not possible to check of all DJ's each month a License like this and also is it not possible to difference this stuff with illegal stuff about the Metadata!''

I don't wanna take position, I just said my point of view about how and why Achilles apply some strict rules, it's not his fault you know

 

Meta information can be edited without using any programs so im not even sure why Meta data would even matter to anyone cause its certainly not a reliable way to tell if a file if legal or not. And how hard is it to send a screenshot of a licence every month?

 

Also its not that the strict rules were applied... its WHY they were applied. They were applied because he dosn't like that I record mixes. he's against that, and thats fine. But thats not his business, its mine and mine only.

[Guest Twiggy]

I have read through the entire post and have seem where you are trying to make this sound all about you putting music on mixcloud as being the entire problem.

In your 1st post you put this in relations to "Content Unlimited"....

"This service has been used by a number of public DJs because it's a much cheaper option to get the tracks you want and also allows us to take requests which other players love."

I am sure that will have been in the original discussion you had with Achilles to or it would not have become such an issue.

You have stated you use that service to supply songs for when you play in 3DX, and I am willing to bet you did that in the discussion you had in that group chat you refer to.

Achilles may have said he does not agree with you putting stuff on mixcloud like that, but his concern has been over you using that service for streaming in 3DX and the doubts on its legalities.

As it is his server and his responsibility entrusted to him by Gizmo you really had no right to question it, especially in the public forum.

You can try convince everyone it was all about you putting stuff on mixcloud, but you know it is not about that.

[Camden]

I think the issue is that while it is on your own time, what has happened is that learning of the recording of CU content now puts him at risk. Because, he does not know that you haven't pre-recorded your sets. It is real easy to do. As a safety measure, he has removed that option. I don't like it but it is what it is and I get why he did it. In a public forum such as this, issues are exposed and it seems like less a pain and liability to just shut it down. Because honestly, you can take purchased tracks, put them in an automixer or mix them live and record them. Which would still be illegal. So it is too much hassle to manage, it exploded, the last straw was snapped and the end has come. 

 

I agree that the devs should step up but I doubt that they will. They would need to appoint someone to manage it and we will see the same exact posts crop about about the unfairness of it all as there have been. Not to mention the cost. The commercial license has got to be more than just an individual license. I just don't think they will be willing to incur that cost.

[JessicaX]

I think the issue is that while it is on your own time, what has happened is that learning of the recording of CU content now puts him at risk. Because, he does not know that you haven't pre-recorded your sets. It is real easy to do. As a safety measure, he has removed that option. I don't like it but it is what it is and I get why he did it. In a public forum such as this, issues are exposed and it seems like less a pain and liability to just shut it down. Because honestly, you can take purchased tracks, put them in an automixer or mix them live and record them. Which would still be illegal. So it is too much hassle to manage, it exploded, the last straw was snapped and the end has come. 

 

I agree that the devs should step up but I doubt that they will. They would need to appoint someone to manage it and we will see the same exact posts crop about about the unfairness of it all as there have been. Not to mention the cost. The commercial license has got to be more than just an individual license. I just don't think they will be willing to incur that cost.

 

Oh but he does.. when you record a set... the tracks do not change. its one long file.  its very clear when someone if playing a mix or playing files. 

 

And also, again, most DJs here record and upload to mixcloud.. so why I am I the only one being persecuted for it?