JessicaX

Every single thread that gets derailed.. and yes i mean EVERY SINGLE THREAD that gets derailed and turns into insults and bickering, there is always one person who is part of it, and it's always the same person.

Coincidence? I think not. 

I didn't ridicule you, I said it was a good idea, flawed yes even you agreed to that.  I tell people to play the game for themselves and have some fun.  I don't need to tell someone what to think, do or how to play a game.  I simply comment with my opinion like everyone else.

I didn't say you did.

No he wasn't and would you knock it off. If people have issues with other people they don't need to bring it into every damn thread that other people create to ask for assistance or to have a discussion. Sheeeeesh grow up!

#1 problem in these forums... right there

I'm sorry but to simply say there's no way to protect against it is laughable and very lazy at best. Just making a statement like this says a lot about one's personality and views. ALL other companies find ways to do it. Anything at this point would be better than nothing.  I'm also tired of people circling the issues and dodging the obvious problems by posting things we already know about.

For the 1000000000th time.. Yes we know what Gizmo said. We don't need it "referred to" over and over.  

There's no reason 3DX can't make an effort. Paying users are creating content and increasing the value of their product for FREE. There's no logical reason why they can't do something to protect these people's creations. 

Yes we all know they can do what they want. (or attempt to at least)

Yes we all know Gizmo has given his stance (many millions of times over)

Yes we all know nothing on the internet is always 100% secure. 

Yes we all know there will always be bugs in everything (wait what?  where did this come from? where did this idea come from that everything has bugs in it? That is simply not true at all)

None of the above changes the fact that what is happening is plain and simple.. WRONG. Most companies would attempt do something about it to protect their users who are actually creating this content, which is very high quality and enjoyed by all users, at zero cost to the development team!

You will never in a million years convince me or anyone else that there is no way to fix this. That's called being lazy and close minded. It is not the norm in any online social world, it is not right, and it's something that I feel should be addressed in one way or another. 

On the ideas of others, I have created a thread to try and make a difference and/or maybe take a step in the right direction, TRYING to do something or anything. I was met with ridicule and negativity by the same few people who scour these threads daily to try and tell everyone: That idea wont work, that idea is dumb, you should do this instead, you should play like this, you should just accept things for how they are. I have already given my points on such topics. I don't feel the need to have to apologize for it, but I am not a sheep conformist that accepts things as they are without question, especially when they are detrimental to so many people in so many ways. 

well actually you are wrong, a few years ago SL gave over ownership to creators which enabled creators more control. One just needs to google for the info. as far as your tos statement, I would suggest reading the eula on the main site.   http://3dxchat.com/terms-and-conditions.html

 

Linden distinguished the then-struggling Second Life from other multiplayer role-playing games by trumpeting the idea of ownership. Members paid monthly fees for their holdings that the company likened to property taxes. "Linden made a calculated business decision to depart from the industry standard of denying that participants had any rights to virtual items, land and/or goods,"

This was not about he legality of user created content. This had to do with people paying real money for virtual items in SL and whether or not those people had actual ownership of those items after paying money for them.  Linden Labs did not "give ownership" to people. The users of SL filed a class action lawsuit against them. Also, this was not just a few years ago, this was nearly 10 years ago.  

Yet success in such an investment happens, the strange tactic that you say has 100% guaranteed failure is called growth. To invest in your own product is believing that it can succeed however one must also be away that it can not stay the same coarse, over time changes for it to maintain it's growth must occur. So far as I have seen Companies such as Lego (from wooden products to the plastic building blocks), Coke Cola (Cherry Coke and other flavors) and even government, investing in ones product does work. Shit happens, but that is when leaders step forward taking a product from being in the red and making it better, Lego was once in the red as was Coke Cola and well we voted Trump in office so.. Reason why i mentioned Lego and Coke Cola is because to get out of the red they took a step back to what worked. The person left according to Nikki perhaps people can get in contact with him, perhaps broken bridges can be mended, just perhaps. As for Trump, i don't know, i am not a miracle worker. 

Growth can only happen when the product is invested in. There is no growth when you sit back and collect a bigger and bigger check. And yes, sometimes taking a step back is needed to see the big picture and possible identify what the issues are and and trying to fix those issues at the core.

Maybe that's why they haven't fixed any bugs in 5 years. They could be taking a step back and assessing the issues for one big fix. 

And I too would love this person Nikki mentions to get involved but alas... free and hands off is always better from a business standpoint right? 

Sometimes when merging files things get hidden or are way out in no man's land and because of the size if small can be lost.

That can always be a problem and I do the same thing. I place things near the camera spawn in point but just raise them really high before I merge them into the other room, that way it should be easier to find them because they should just be above where the camera spawns in. Thankfully I don't merge many things. 

Gizmo Posted 17 January 2018 - 06:47 AM By saving your world on the game server, you must understand that it becomes public and available to all players. This means that your world can be downloaded, and also copied as any public information in the Internet. If you do not agree that your world can be accessible to other players, then do not create your worlds in the World Editor. Point out where in this statement does it state they find it acceptable, it's stating flat out this is going to happen as it does anywhere else.  By creating and making your room public you're accepting that can happen. A rule on the forum was violated and action was taken.  Again we agreed to that when creating a world and opening it public.

 

While it's a hack used this is online and is subjected to it like any other site or anything that is online.

 

Do you see that part that I've enlarged the size of the text, it means WE the USERS ACCEPT IT period, end of story.  Don't accept it, don't open your room to the public.

Oh yes I see it... you have posted it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. 

They clearly find it acceptable because they allow it. That is the very essence of accepting something, when you have the power to do something about it and choose not to. They punish someone who shows others how to do it, yet they freely allow anyone to do it. You can turn a blind eye and be accepting of this if you choose. Many others, myself included will not.

I honestly don't ever expect anything to get done about it. There's been bugs in the game for years that could have been fixed with simple code changes yet here we are 5 years later with the same bugs.  You are not going to change my mind on this. Maybe it's just time for us to agree to disagree. You are someone that accepts the way things are without question. I am not built this way. 

Investing any money back into the product seems to be something that only happens on the most rare of occasions. It's a strange tactic that has a 100% guaranteed failure rate over the long haul, but what do we know? We are just a bunch of pervs. 

 

This is a terrible analogy.

 

SexGameDevil does not need to hack their own game to convert a user room for use in a public location. If they did decide to do that, i am quite sure they would give credit to the people who built it.

Hello, they don't need to hack it as they own the game and have access to all of our rooms that are on the server at any given point in time.  They may or may not if you remember FrenchTouch who did the dances and the backlash of bitching and complaining about them.

 

You seem to be unable to understand the root issue: 

I got the root issue, it's plain and clear what has been said by Gizmo.  We make a room open it public it's on us and we have to deal with it, period.  Bitching and complaining is about all we can do.  After a while they could turn around and say you don't have a room anymore and you only have the public rooms they offer.  Then everyone will bitch and complain again.  Get what I'm saying.

 

People are hacking their game to make copies of other people's rooms which is very clearly against the ToS. They have come out and stated that they will allow this, yet they suspended a user for showing people how to do what they already said was acceptable. The action of stealing the room is acceptable but giving out the information on how to do that is a worse offense. It's truly the most backwards way of thinking I have seen here yet.

While it's against the ToS to use hacks for the game, it's public on the internet anyone that is a part of the game even if an our, goes to all the rooms, copies then leaves.  What can you do about it as you don't know how it was accessed, who accessed the files to be able to do anything about it.  There is more than one way to do it. 

 

Gizmo Posted 17 January 2018 - 06:47 AM By saving your world on the game server, you must understand that it becomes public and available to all players. This means that your world can be downloaded, and also copied as any public information in the Internet. If you do not agree that your world can be accessible to other players, then do not create your worlds in the World Editor. Point out where in this statement does it state they find it acceptable, it's stating flat out this is going to happen as it does anywhere else.  By creating and making your room public you're accepting that can happen. A rule on the forum was violated and action was taken.  Again we agreed to that when creating a world and opening it public.

 

The only answer I have seen to this has been: "It's their game and they can do what they want". Ok then why have any rules at all? if you aren't even going to enforce the rules, how are we to know which ones are valid and which ones aren't?

I answered this above but there is almost no way to know is using a hack to copy rooms and who isn't.  There is no 100% secure anything that is online.  We have to accept that.

 

This is going to affect them in the long run. maybe not now and maybe not next week, but it will affect them if they don't do anything about it.

Again we agreed to that happening when we created a room and opened it public.

 

I don't see a button in game that says: Copy this room

So ANY procedure in doing this is considered a hack and using the software in ways for which it was not intended to gain access to something that is not possible without using such hack. It's very simple logic. 

if someone copies a room, it is a hack, plain and simple. But don't you dare talk about that hack.. that will get you suspended. But using the hack... sure go ahead, we are too lazy to do anything about it. It takes too much time and costs too much to fix!

Yes we all know nothing is 100% secure, but it would not take much to implement even something that could watermark or ID a room to a certain user and then encrypt the data being sent. Will it be 100% successful in every instance? certainly not, but it would be easier to track who is doing it and it would also be better than doing absolutely nothing to try and protect the data. 

Repeating what Gizmo said over and over and telling everyone nothing will work is unacceptable to me. Sorry. I am not a conformist. When I see something happening that I think is not right, I will speak up about it, and this situation we have right here is not right. 

There is a lot of false ideas constantly pushed here.

First, Gizmo never said that stealing rooms is OK.  He said that if you post your room on 3DXChat it becomes public.  The room information is downloaded across the internet and is available to anyone who knows how to construct the query to retrieve it.  That is the nature of how the game works and not something any easy fix can be made for.   It does not mean Gizmo condones theft, only that he recognizes the possibility and lets you know that you are at risk of having your work used by someone else.   The general rule on all websites even social media is that by uploading anything you are giving rights to what you upload to that site.  This prevents nuisance lawsuits by people blaming the site they uploaded to when others take what they made publicly available. 

I agree on most of what you said except for what has been quoted above.

This major issue here is that in order to copy a user's room, you must use third party programs and/or use the software in ways for which it was not intended to gain access to something that the framework of 3dx was not designed for. This labels that action as a hack, which is clearly against the ToS that was posted by the devs themselves.

If they want to hold a stance that user rooms are public info, then how can it be justified that a user was suspended by giving out the information on how to do this? 

They can't take the stance by accepting that room copying is acceptable but showing someone how to do it will get you suspended. The act of suspending someone for posting the hack clearly shows that the act of copying a room does go against the ToS. So my question is:  How is it worse to provide information on how to perform the act than to actually perform the act?

(starts grinding the sand within his teeth lol)

 

Guys if building is what you want to do and show off with then get. Go to Sansar. Your work will be 100% protected but don't try to turn a sex game into a builder engine. Seriously wake up. It's a SEX GAME! If you don't want sex go elsewhere. How hard is that to comprehend really?

I think you need to understand something.

What I do in 3dx and how I see this product and what I do with my time here is MY concern, not yours. You have no right to right to try and tell me or anyone else what this is and how it should be used. 3DX is different for everyone. We all use it in different ways and we all get something different from it. I can only feel sorry for you if you think 3dx is a "sex game" only. The "sex game" aspect got boring to me after being here for 30 days. The social aspect is what keeps me here. I don't expect you or anyone else to understand that, but in the same way, I will not try to tell you that you cannot make porno videos out of avatars and sex poses that all look the same. If that's your thing then knock yourself out. Just don't tell me what 3dx is or should be. I know what it is, just as you know what it is for you. 

To break this down, anything we build in game even though we thought of it in our head, Sex Game Devil can use if they choose to.  So you made a crazy awesome room, never even having anyone else see it as you're afraid someone would copy it and use it.  Sex Game Devil sees your room, decides to use it as a public room, you get pissed off but Sex Game Devil is going to point out to you they own all that is in the game even if you created it.

 

Legally they can do what they want in that aspect, but yes that would be morally screwed up and a shitty move.

This is a terrible analogy.

SexGameDevil does not need to hack their own game to convert a user room for use in a public location. If they did decide to do that, i am quite sure they would give credit to the people who built it. 

You seem to be unable to understand the root issue: 

People are hacking their game to make copies of other people's rooms which is very clearly against the ToS. They have come out and stated that they will allow this, yet they suspended a user for showing people how to do what they already said was acceptable. The action of stealing the room is acceptable but giving out the information on how to do that is a worse offense. It's truly the most backwards way of thinking I have seen here yet.

The only answer I have seen to this has been: "It's their game and they can do what they want". Ok then why have any rules at all? if you aren't even going to enforce the rules, how are we to know which ones are valid and which ones aren't?

This is going to affect them in the long run. maybe not now and maybe not next week, but it will affect them if they don't do anything about it. 

Here is the one question I'd love to see people answer.  Do you know who is or isn't doing it?  Can you prove how they did it?  Can these measures be put into place to help prevent it in the future?  Remember, there is more than one way to do things.

 

I will say this about the thread.  That's not going to happen and will cause more issues than needed.

 

Having a thread to show off rooms that one builds isn't a bad idea but as it's been stated, there is no way to know if that person actually created the room is someone else actually did it and didn't post.  I know I've not posted mine but I do have screenshots but also I have certain things on how I save them so it's easy to know what and when I've done it as it showed the Date Created in my Windows Explorer so that will help as well.  I always save a hard copy with one name then an slight change with another name and open that room.

The answer is... Gizmo has the power and ability to put something together so that this doesn't even happen in the 1st place. Yes you don't like the room ownership thread, it's not a perfect solution and I agree, but it's something! What we don't need is the constant reminder of how things are. I think what the OP is looking for is positive ideas instead of posts where we are all told what he already stated.

His stance is that he does not care if the rooms are stolen, but he did suspend a user for showing how to steal the rooms. That means that the giving out information on how to perform an act is seen as worse than actually doing the act. Your reply to this has been something like: "It's his game and he can do what he wants". Well technically you are right, but that doesn't mean it's right. Some people like myself stand up and voice an opinion when we see something that doesn't seem right. Others sit by and just simply accept the way things are.

There has never been a single time in our history of this world when clear wrong doing is in effect and has turned out in a positive way by accepting the status quo.

Rob - I think you have committed Blueism.

Time and time again you reoffend.

Its not fair and you should re-evaluate your standards - There is nothing wrong with blue!

 

 

 

 

Back to topic:

 

In essence this topic is about freedom of speech and expressing our views in a none troll like way.

Every has an opinion and most I think want everything to be fair and wise.

 

Life is not always fair but we live with it.

Rules on a site like this prevent true freedom for the good of the community, and that is only right ie no verbal abuse or bullying

 

The only way to make change is to discuss and compromise and persuade those who can make changes that this is a better solution to the issue to try and resolve.

Way up the pros and cons - (from Latin prō for + con, from contrā against)

 

The root of all this evil is the issue of room stealling or copying and how to deal with it.

Room builders are rightly annoyed that their creations are taken without permission.

In society laws were made to prevent such things like copyright, theft, fraud laws.

We all know it is morally wrong as well.

 

Room builders have tried to address this issue themselves and have very kindly advertised their free rooms and people like myself who are none builders have taken advantage of their generosities and I now have houses and clubs to enjoy.

 

There is no need to steal a room at all.

 

So the people who do it are trying to cause drama, continue drama thats already in existance or are just plain thieving little bastards.

 

Is this the kind of people 3dxchat want to attract? I suggest not.

 

The 3DXChat community itself is trying to address this issue but also needs positive action and feedback from the Devs here.

 

1. The community itself has tried to address this setting up a topic for registering their room first. This should then prove ownership as it is publicly stated. The owner of the room keeps a note of the unique reference for that post in any copying dispute when they report the matter to 3DX (See less work.. the proof is handed to them in one post )

 

Here is the room registration topic. http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7091-official-room-ownership-thread/

 

Well done to JessicaX for trying to find a solution to it.

 

2. If a room has been copied, then a screen shot by the room owner along with a note showing all the similarities needs to be obtained so the Devs can compare rooms. The proof as they say is in the pudding. Again the Devs have no work to do except read the complaint and compare pics in a one post moment. No Registration & no pics = No action.

 

3. This is where we need the Devs to back up and support the community and make it clear that copyng rooms will not be tolerated.

If the judgement agrees with the complainant, then the "culprit" should be banned for a set time as decided by 3DXChat. Repeat offenders should attract longer bans. An appeal process can be added but if the room is not registered in above topic... tough basically.. a lesson well learnt afterwards by the original builder. Only 1 appeal is allowed and the Devs decision is final.

 

4. The Devs should perhaps add a caveat in their rules, that any proven copying of members rooms will be dealt with severely and will attract temporary bans or could even lead to a permanent ban from the game.

 

I think even room thieves could not argue the injustice of above and can only blame their own actions should they be at the receiving end of a ban.

 

5. The Devs acted correctly in banning the member temporarily who advertised the hack. Room copying and the tools to do it should be a suspend offence.

 

This is my thoughts on it all and seems sensible to me. I just hope the Devs look at the issue and deal with it for the good of the community and their paying customers.

 

----

 

Pros -

1, The community has provided a solution for the issue irritating them and is fair to all

2. The community understand the requirements of proof for such a complaint.

3. The Devs have a one stop read to make their judgement.

4. A caveat will warn future and current members, room copying will not be tolerated

5. There is only one appeal process and the Devs decsion is final.

 

 

Cons -

1.The Devs need to update their rules with a caveat and support offending by a ban

2. The Devs may, depending on how rife the issue is, deal with more complaints and possibly 1 appeal process for each.

3. Maybe set up an adjudication topic so that judgements are publically known. This will also support that room copying is not tolerated.

 

I'm sure there are more pros and cons. They can be added and addressed in any future points made by members.

I just hope the Devs will support their members on this.

No disrespect  .... I am no expert  .... but every host uses the same service 'centova cast'  .... Infact I was having problems  (I thought with geckohost ) I eventually realised it was a 3dx problem  .... In fact the owner of Gecko host was the one that informed me that all the web hosts used the same software licensed from centova cast.

 

The music poroblems have changed with each update by 3DX ,,,, the webhosts use the same software (nothing has changed) the only thing changing is 3dx  .... I think that says something  ....

 

If I am missing something I am willing to change my opinion

In this current round of issues of streaming in private rooms... every case where the issue was people not able to hear the music... the DJ was using myradiostream.... I use gecko, others use other providers, no issues with any other provider. That is all I can tell you. 

I can tell you that not all stream servers are of the same quality, sure the common software for shoutcast is Centova but that is only 1 part of a larger machine.

https://www.mixcloud.com/Jess010783/3dx-milliways-june-30th-2018/

Epic party at Milliways 

Brett, the point this whole time is that posting the rules is kinda silly because they don't enforce them in a consistent way. 

Its hacking and using the software in ways it was not intended for, in order to copy a user room. 

The stance is that... It's ok to use these hacks and copy these rooms. But if you show people how to do it, you will be punished. 

I'm sorry but you can't logic that any way you slice it. It makes no sense. 

Oh yes I was an Alpha tester when they only had 4 rooms (Experience as they call it). Because of limited time in RL I never got very much involved but I recently checked back and saw how huge it is now. 3DXChat has nicer avatars but Sansar is not a sex game. It truly is the kind of game our complaining builders here are looking for. It's simply impressive

 

 

This one is one of the first places made:

 

 

This one was on Halloween. That place was some serious heart attack causer with a VR Headset on.

 

 

Anyway those creations are 100% protected but Sansar was made for that purpose. 3DXChat wasnt. And I hope that is the simple fact people eventually will understand.

I didn't know those were yours.. i have have visited all these locations, that bridge is super crazy realistic in VR. 

I think that there is more in the EULA that makes it clear that its against the rules to make a post like what was made. Honestly I feel bad for Piers I think he is a good guy and people drove him a bit crazy but still that type of post is clearly not allowed simply because of the type of tool he used to copy the room file.

 

"Site Security

You are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security of the Website, including, without limitation, (a) accessing data not intended for such user or logging onto a server or an account which You are not authorized to access; (b ) attempting to probe, scan or test the vulnerability of a system or network or to breach security or authentication measures without proper authorization; © attempting to interfere with service to any user, host or network, including, without limitation, via means of submitting a virus to the Website, overloading, "flooding," "spamming," "mailbombing" or "crashing;" (d) sending unsolicited email, including promotions and/or advertising of products or services; or (e) forging any TCP/IP packet header or any part of the header information in any email or newsgroup posting. Violations of system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability. SexGameDevil will investigate occurrences that may involve such violations and may involve, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities in prosecuting users who are involved in such violations. You agree not to use any device, software or routine to interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of the Website or any activity being conducted on the Website. You agree, further, not to use or attempt to use any engine, software, tool, agent or other device or mechanism (including without limitation browsers, spiders, robots, avatars or intelligent agents) to navigate or search the Website other than the search engine and search agents available from SexGameDevil on the Website and other than generally available third party web browsers (e.g., Netscape Navigator, Microsoft Explorer). "

This is exactly the point.

Why was Pier banned for showing how to do this, but the people who actually do this are free to run wild and the devs don't care?

Seem's messed up to allow countless people to break rules and only punish the one who tried to show others how to do it. 

BTW.. this is what it's like to be a DJ in 3DX. 

The public room thing has been an issue also. The music just stops randomly sometimes. 

But in private rooms.. its a much bigger issue. There's many times the stream cannot even be heard at all or will stop even after a few seconds. And in every case I know of for me personally, its because the stream was from myradiostream. 

I don't mean to offend anyone but everyone i have ever known that has ever used this service has had countless issues over the years. I would suggest something different. 

or dumb enough.. depending on how ya read that. 

Also I don't think Rob is smart enough to steal a room