Beryl

10 hours ago, Lorelia said:

Is it still a debate about adding a gender? For that i sure vote nay, cause it's silly. Being transgender means you identify as one of the 2 "regular" genders, it's not a 3rd.

But really, why not change these checkboxes into a text field, where anybody can input whatever they fancy...
I wanna be able to identify as a cat or a rabbit and call you all catphobic for not wanting to add the option in 3dx.

But I do agree that an option to have or not have a penis by default would be nice.

This is not true at all. Trans is more then just going from male to female or visa versa. Its so much more then that... and infinitly more complex
Its more then just a life style, its not a perversion, its not just a choice people make. Somebody would choose to dress up as a cat or rabbit. I do not choose to be non-binary. ITS WHO I AM I have as little control over it as you do your natural eye colour 

And guys... please. Stop this 'a true TG would never...' and assuming what a TG will or will not do. Tans and non-binary are people are people they have hundreds of different personalities and political opinions. There is no single Trans gender personality or single trans ideology, unless they tell you, or show you. There is LITTERALY no way to tell who is trans or who is not. We have no choice but to take their word when they say they are and that's it. The consequences of not believing somebody when the come out as non-binary or trans are to high let alone immoral.

AGAIN: It is possible to make everyone happy WITHOUT making people pay 10k for a new avatar. A solution that should be easy to add. A character editor option to change your genitalia. A option only YOU have access to. NOBODY will be able to change it. We already have a penis model for female avi's a vagina model for male avi's won't be that hard surly. The Male bisexual poses just need small tweaks to make them vaginal.

This way all the 'snowflakes' get what they want for very little dev cost (I know the devs are.... slow. I'm not asking for this right now.), and we won't have to add a 3rd gender option. Nobody thus far has come forward with any counter to this and in fact some people have even posted suggestions the same as this or near enough

Edit: I will continue to bang on about trans inclusion, acknowledgement and acceptance until a point where we have true equality. I know it takes time and I know it takes work but on this I hold my opinion on my sleeve and will talk about whenever asked or when the topic turns that way. I don't care if people have heard it before and I don't care if people hate me for it, i've already known hate.

*sigh*

As much as I hate arguing and debating its important. And we should never shy away from challenging people or even shy away from being challenged. We don't have to convince bigots of being bigots, they are already a lost cause. By challenging them in a public we may be able to sway people watching... the lurkers (Looks right at you! Yes you! The person who read this whole thread and didn't post! I know who you are!) who have not yet decided on a solid opinion and show them a just and good alternative to bigotry 

 

Bicycles... really... Bicycles...

Take your borderline TERF garbage somewhere else. 

16 minutes ago, GaborX said:

 

• Second, the avatar creator could be completely free, in that you could freely pair your body type (Male or Female) with your genital (penis or vagina). It could even be a character editor option where you can freely switch between them, or at least genitals. The game could also handle changes better, not forcing a penis/strap-on on women if they don't want it, but simply disabling the poses that would otherwise need them.

 

I like this. Its pretty much what I suggested. A character editor option... that way nobody has to spend 10k on changing it 

2 minutes ago, YenneferVengerberg said:

when the other human beings will also have a uterus , every 28 days the menstruation and all the injustices that a woman must suffer will be all the same , until then we are not all the same , game or no game and it is incredible that there is someone who wants to put everyone same plan ... a man is not a woman as a woman is not a man and is not an old way of thinking but it is nature ... everything else is rhetoric and hypocrisy

now i close the speech and i don't answer to anyone any more given the ignorance and the little awareness of things in the name we are all the same , it is not like this and it will never be like this

Bye Felicia 

40 minutes ago, YenneferVengerberg said:

a woman is one who has a womb to have children , do you think that a trans a futa a transgender can have children ?
NO , so i know what it is and what i am so if you want to mix things up to say that i am ignorant you are wrong

words have weight and changing their meaning is a mistake , so also a man and a woman at this point ? pity that he gets a 5 minute fuck but then the nine months if the woman makes them plus the birth ... and no it is not good to say that a trans and a woman , i am not a trans as i am not a futa and i'm not a transgender and I want to defend my right to call myself a woman at any cost ... to have the right to vote do you know how many fights and how many women have died ? i think not , you talk about a woman without knowing anything about what a woman still has to suffer today, like here in a game ... no no no no no no and no

as a woman i have every right to say what i say and to say that one who does not have a womb is not a woman

Just so you know I am biologically female. I know all the struggles and I have even studied them... in excruciating detail. So think again when you say I don't know anything about what a woman is or what they deal with.

Also. I DO NOT WANT TAKE YOUR RIGHTS AWAY! I am trying to explain to you that there are more women out there who are being excluded, left in the dark and left behind because they are not cis.  THEY ARE WOMEN, They are like you! They may not have a womb... they may even have a penis. They may suffer slightly differently because of it but they suffer mostly like you. Their struggles... MY STRUGGLES, Are the same as yours. I'm not asking to share a safe space, not even asking for some kind of profound sisterhood. Just recognition that I... they... we exist. 

And in a place like 3dx where you can be as you wish... It would be nice if there was a little more of that inclusion.. More recognition for trans people and people like me WITHOUT taking away any recognition from women. I am on your side, please understand that! But I cannot accept that you, or any person, man or woman has any kind of right to decide the gender of another human being

If you say you are a woman then you are a woman. I'm not saying you are not

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/woman

I don't see any reference to a womb being required for womanhood. 

What about women who were born without a womb, women who for whatever reason have lost there ability to birth children? Are they excluded? No longer women as you see it

And what about men or intersex people who have wombs and can have children... Are they women to? 

17 minutes ago, YenneferVengerberg said:

futanari is not a woman
trans is not a woman
transgender is not a woman

That is totally wrong in so many ways. 

It is not up to you to decide what makes a woman a woman. And it is NOT you who gets to decide if a person is a woman or not.

Also... Nobody here is against you! What you want is what I want! But to say trans people are not women like that is insulting and beyond ignorant

32 minutes ago, Xizl said:

Are you sure about it? And if the answer is yes, how much of them really exist in 3dx? I mean not just FtM transgenders. But FtM transgenders who want to play with a male avatar with a vagina? 

Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to fight your points from the humane/moral side of it. Giving every person ability to have the body they want is morally right and that would be beautiful.

But lets look at this problem from more pragmatic angle.

Adding vagina to male avi is not enough in this case. You have to bring this avi type poses. There is no receiving vaginal poses for men avis at this point. And I am sure if people will get such an avis they will ask for such a poses as well, no? Does it make sense to make such an avi without giving them poses? If it does... Alright.

If it does not and they need poses... Well, again, from a moral and humane point of view their needs should be satisfied even if it will be just a very few people. But business-wise it makes no sense, equality itself, without enough demand, does not bring money. Tell me honestly, do you believe that Lisa will make for example, let's say even 10-20 vaginal poses for just a few people? Do you understand how much critics she and SexGameDevil will get if they will spend time on creating these poses while this poses will be used just by a few people, probably less than 0.1%? 

Again, I am not trying to argue your points from a moral and humane point of view. You are right. Equality is great. But I am just trying to stay realistic. 

 

I'm 90% sure because I know there are a lot more ftm trans people then people realise and I can extrapolate to 3dx also considering online communities like 3dx also tend to have more trans participants then real world communities for obvious reason. Trans people are made up of various groups including ftm and others would would like to be in a male body with some of them more then happy to keep their vagina.

Sure... demand might not be as high, but I do think it would be a good idea to to business wise if that is so important. I think of it this way, being more inclusive and being proud of being more inclusive is attractive to people in 2020. If 3dx is known as being open and inclusive to ftm trans people then it would not only attract ftm trans people to the service but also other non-binary, trans, gay, bi, lesbian and all sorts of other non hetero-normative people (That is a lot of people btw) who can now see that 3dx is serious about LGBT rights and inclusion. Now that I have established A potential business value...

The cost. The cost is small. I am suggesting is a vagina on a male model. Women who have the penis equipped already use the MF poses most of the time with no issue. And the bisexual poses (the ones where the man is taking anal) can very easily be slightly tweaked to be vaginal. (Most vaginal poses are basically anal poses anyway... just slightly tweaked) I really can't imagine it being that much work and like I said before, business wise, it would be worth the cost.

Final point. Ignoring morality in favour of better business is something that companies have been doing as justification to put down and discriminate against LGBT people for decades and decades. The fact of the matter is accepting LGBT people will not make business start to loose money, if anything it would make business boom as they now have access to wider markets and potential employees. 

1 minute ago, Xizl said:

That's true. 

This third gender doesn't have to be called "transgender". I just don't know how to call it. Futa? No, it's not really a futa. Shemale? Some will find it offensive. Tgirl maybe? I guess some will not like it as well... 

And about FtM transgenders... I never seen on this forum or in game anyone asking to make such an avi type for themselves. I've seen people saying stuff like "there is FtM transgenders as well so we need such an avatars", yes. But I never seen anyone saying that they are FtM transgenders themselves and they want an avatar option of male with vagina for themselves. I have a feeling like people asking for this feature out of desire for equality, not for themselves. I am not sure that there is a real demand. If such a demand really exists and FtM transgenders play 3dxchat and want to have an option of male body with a vagina – yes, sure why not. But if people asking it not because of real demand, but only for the matter of equality... Better not waste devs' time on something that does not have a demand. I've seen several girls who like to play as male avis here but never heard them wanting to have a pussy option for male avi. But I may be wrong, it's just my personal experience. 

I get what you mean. But those people defiantly exist even if they are not showing themselves.

And equality is a good thing! If people are suggesting it then that is good. It would only be a small thing to add as you are adding the penis for female avatars. You could do it all together in a single update

2 minutes ago, Ghost Girl said:

you can't define transgender in a third option because trans is more than one gender. Transmales exist along with transwomen and nonbinary and intersex. As much as I would love for trans representation the truth is, a trans girl is just a girl with male parts and a trans male is just a male born with female parts. So to do my trans sisters and brothers justice would be to be more inclusive. Accept trans women as women and trans men as just men. 

If there should be a third option it would be better to make a futa option and while I don't mind it, I would never want to restrict the penis option for women. 
So I can't back that idea either. 

The best idea I can think of would be a penis and vagina option for male and female avatars. In this scenario a trans woman could decide to have a penis or vagina and a trans male could also have the same option. So just leaving the two, female and male we could change the game to let the user decide what sex organs they would like. 

It makes sense to me currently, but I have had a few whiskey and cokes. So I will revisit this in the AM. 

Thank you! 

Also some trans people don't see their penis as a male part and would like to keep it after they transition, and i'm sure they are trans-men out their who feel the same about their vaginas

The only reason we mark penis's as masculine gendered is because we see them on men most of the time, if you removed any cultural projection there no real reason to assume a penis is masculine gendered.
But I digress 

Thanks for this post!!

Arggg!

Its a super simple concept! Why are people so insistent on over complicating the matter! 

People who use the penis attachment on a female avatar

• Trans women pre or post transition it literally doesn't matter, a trans woman is a trans woman or a woman, regardless of sex,
• Men and woman who's fantasy it is to be a woman with a penis 
• People who's gender doesn't match their physical sex completely and do not strictly fall under 'trans' (<-- That's me!)

The real debate of the matter is two of those groups would like something more then they way it is currently. Not different... just more. Nobody is suggesting taking away anything from anyone so group 2 would be fine to continue living out their fantasy. 

We are arguing semantics here. Trans, Futa, herm, femboy... whatever you want to call yourself. As long as your not being a ass and not deliberately offending people and are open to being corrected if you are being offensive you can call yourself as you wish.

There is a suggestion that can solve this for everyone at very little cost

When making a character you could have the option to pick your genitalia seperatly from your avatars sex. Male avatars would be able to have vaginas and female avatars could have penises and they would be stuck... no pose can remove them or change them... Those poses would simply be unavailable for selection. A cis woman who has not chosen to have a penis would also not have a penis added to them via poses because to access them you would have to have the penis equipped as it works now, with the exception of if it is not equipped said poses are also unavailable for selection

The poll is fine the way it is. Its clear and simple. Would the game be better with proper transgender avatars would be a better wording. But its obvious what it means and you would be silly to not see it

Just now, BlueMooon said:

Maybe so but at least everybody would be happy

Always going to be unhappy people... The suggestion I said earlier solves the unwanted penis and the unwanted removal of a penis along with giving trans men the option of having a vagina. IMO that would make the most people happy and require the least amount of work

1 minute ago, BlueMooon said:

How about we start with a completely blank headless body, nothing on it and all faces, hairstyles and clothes are accessible to everybody?  wouldn't that solve the problem?  

Yeah... I would like that. Its very 'slash and burn' though. It would require a lot of very drastic changes and a lot of work

2 minutes ago, Jule1988 said:

1. Futa/nari is 100% Fantasy  . It comes from Japan/Hentai/Manga Stuff its nothing real, if people call themself Futa can mean stuff like . A Female person  with Pussy and Dick, to the Same time ,or a Female person that can let grew out of her clit a dick. In Reallife exist NO Futanari.

2. A Hermaphrodite /Intersexual person is no Futa, also doesnt come close. Its the 3rd Sex , people get borned like this 1 of85.000 Average , in Germany it called : Diversity if people want it /are like this (on the ID card).

3. If people call themself *TS= Transsexual * and Play a Girl with Dick, you can be sure they are NOT Transsexual or know what that m eans. Usualy transsexual Persons , want to go the full away remove the clit/dick however . If people want to stay like this , its Transgender.

It exist Post OP Transsexual (if they did the Surgevy allready), Pre Op Transsexual if they still have it

 

Think they dont need to Add a 3rd Avatar , they could Make it just Easier.

Just that you have in the Character Editor a Option to Set the Dick/Strapon Off or On and than the Positions  with dick/strapon are not more useable for you , if its Off.

Would make things easier, i think.

 

 

That is very close to what I suggested earlier in the thread

3 minutes ago, BlueMooon said:

Where exactly will the options end?  Just click the button to add the cock if you're a woman and feel like you need it to make you feel like a whole pixel person. 

Your right. Just added options on options is not realistic. The problem being discusses is it makes cis women uncomfortable when poses add a penis to them against their will and it make trans women and non-binary people uncomfortable when they loose their penis when certain poses are selected

19 minutes ago, CTEPBA said:

Sorry ... Let's start from the beginning then. What is a woman with a penis for you, a man or a woman?

For me, this is a man with effeminate symptoms. Why are you forcing women to bear this burden in the game, especially if most of the players on these characters are men.

Sorry to double quote but I missed this point.
Sorry again for getting preachy but I feel this is a important thing to say

It makes no difference the real world Sex or Gender of a person. They have chosen how they want to be and that must be respected and we would have no choice but to trust them. If you would like to know a real world persons sex or gender you can ask them and if they say 'That's private' you can then decide for yourself if you want to continue RESPECTFULY. And if they lie... well they lie. I would rather they not but that's the risk you take when you go into a space where people can be anonymous like that and as much as I don't like it I see no way of respectfully enforcing that kind of thing

8 minutes ago, CTEPBA said:

Sorry ... Let's start from the beginning then. What is a woman with a penis for you, a man or a woman?

For me, this is a man with effeminate symptoms. Why are you forcing women to bear this burden in the game, especially if most of the players on these characters are men.

What is a woman with a penis... a woman with a penis is the answer... or just A Woman. A penis is a physical organ and not really related to gender, in fact we impose our own gender onto it based only on the fact that most penises are found on men when in fact they are also found on intersex people and women

And I don't want for force women into anything. I want cis women to not have to deal with getting a magical penis on them when that would make them very uncomfortable. Just as it makes me uncomfortable when I loose my penis when certain poses are selected by my partner.

I want to stop that happening. And I have already posted my suggestion for a fix to that, along with other less realistic and possible future suggestions

5 minutes ago, Xizl said:

No. 

Transgender women should not be men with tits, even if you for some reason see it this way.

MtF transgender avatar should be based on women's body. 

Yep. I would like a slider that shows a transition form masculine to feminine but i'm a realist. That really would require a total rework

8 minutes ago, CTEPBA said:

For a real woman, a penis is not needed, and starpon is usually in exceptional cases) How it is implemented now is all unnatural and wrong. Let's make a man a big chest and let him choose by default whether he will be a man or a shemale)))

Real woman... what is a 'real' woman really? And can you please not use the word 'shemale'. Its not a huge issue for me, but its not a nice word to use, least of all as a catch all term for anyone not strictly cis male or female. Trans woman or trans man is good enough 

It would take a lot of work but it would be cool if all clothes could be worn by anyone regardless of gender... 

Hairstyles to

1 minute ago, Derai said:

In the short term, I’d love to see a toggle switch. 
Like we have now for Run and Walk. 
But for ‘Strap-on/cock’ ‘Y/N’ (with a choice selection when Yes is selected)

And link that toggle to the pose menus so the Y/N state of the above toggle affects what poses you can select. 

Picked N, then you or your partner(s) don’t even See the options in the menu. 

That would be nice for the short term. Though if they do this I would like them to not just leave it like that and instead progress it further. I would like a option, basically reverse of what other people have said here. A option to lock a penis in... And not have it removable and to have my non-binary status more formally recognised as more then just a female avi with a flesh strap on

6 minutes ago, YenneferVengerberg said:

1 that there is no trans character and a lack of respect for the trans , and we women

2 it is not difficult for programmers to take the female character to attack a fixed cock and to make a trans character

3 this thing that as a woman I have to grow a magical cock for the exclusive pleasure of a man ... i don't want it to happen

4 i don't like those who think that it is right for a woman to grow a cock even if she does not want to, it is violence towards the woman ... then I want a man to get a pussy so he gets fucked in the ass and in the pussy

5 it is incredible to read certain comments that do not respect the will of a woman but only want to impose things that a woman does not want, it is called sexual violence even if we are for some in a game

my english sucks but it's more disgusting and seeing a magic cock you don't want

This really touches on my hatred of people asking me to 'remove my dick' because they don't want it. I am not built for your pleasure and I did not make my avatar the way it is only to be changed for your pleasure.

5 minutes ago, GottaGo said:

I wonder though if MF poses and MM poses are compatibles, it depend if the avatars are rigged the same way. If so, programmatically, they could "force" the gender of a female character to male (or TG or whatever) when they wear a strapon or cock. And simply refresh the available poses. Should not be that hard to do and would be pretty efficient.

Only the developers know here.

I don't know the specifics. I know that a lot of poses where the woman used a penis or strap on are identical to the MF version

4 minutes ago, BadWord said:

I honestly think the best solution would be a way to lock your gender for the moment, and reworking the pose system to avoid unintentional dickery.

And by best, I mean, realistic thing to hope for.

 

They could also add TG/futa undies, with a bulge included.

 

I voted yes, even tho I don´t think we "need" tg avis. It would obviously be better to have them than not have them. But need is a strong word.

We don´t need more underwear for man avis, but it would be awesome to have more undies for man avis.

I think the male avi just needs more clothes period

10 minutes ago, GottaGo said:

The most of the work isn't on the gender itself i think. But the way the gender is handled over poses.

For each poses, the gender of the character is defined and you need to have gender who match the availables poses. If there is a male and a female, you have all the MF poses availables.

If you had another gender, you have to rework all the poses settings to handle this third gender. Which mean disabling some for female today, and restricting several poses for TG.

And then if you keep the flesh strapon, you need to disable the way it automatically appear when you play a woman. Otherwise the problem will be the same. Another way to handle that is simply to disable the active role in "lesbian" poses when you don't wear a strapon.

My suggestion has the way it works currently. A male avi and a female avi. The male avi has the option in character creation to add a vagina instead of penis and the female the option to have a penis instead of a vagina. This would be locked in, no poses can change it, said poses could be greyed out or just not available for selection. People who want to add or remove it quickly and freely would still have the option we have currently with the exception that it needs to be equipped to 'un grayout' poses or make them sellectable 

It would not be a cake walk to code sure but a hell of a lot easier then you are suggesting. The cost of time invested is small enough to justify the change easily