Sammael

 

Are you also trying to say that there is no gender imbalance in game? That flies in the face of RobT's assertion that most women avis are played by men and we know you always agree with RobT. In any case the data we have on that shows that male users outweigh female by a factor of about five, maybe even more.

 

Maybe you're objecting to the idea that survey data suitably tested and anlysed is not a basis for making any sort of decision. Any survey, even professional ones, suffer from limitations. If you're going to use them then you need to be aware of these and do your best with what you have. Which is what I am trying to do here.

 

 

 

Any forum  poll is statistically invalid. It is what is known in the polling industry as a voodoo poll https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-access_poll

To be able to make any inferences from a poll that are valid you need 3 things

1) a sample size large enough to be statistically valid

2) random sampling to eliminate bias from those most interested

3) A sample weighted to the general population

In respect of the gender imbalance by the way...I don't think its as low as you make it out. I think 1  in 10 you quoted. I have quite a number of the friends I had here come over to spend time with me in SL. Most of them got on voice as the game is voice activated. Out of the 12 that made an account to keep in touch with me 9 got on voice all were female. shrugs its anecdotal it is true and it maybe I am just good at selecting avi's that are female irl

20 friends

12 came made an account = 60%

9 got on voice = 45%

9 were female = 45%

I’ve not questioned your gender, Mar-Mohan, so don’t pull that one.

 

Let’s try a different tack and develop a set of criteria to test whether suggestions are worth presenting to the devs. I’d suggest these:-

 

1) suggestions should stand a chance of doing some good.

 

2) suggestions shouldn’t inhibit role play, building, messing outfits or avi.

 

3) there shouldn’t be any unintended bad consequences.

 

 

Criterion 4 it shouldn't invade peoples privacy oh damn they all fail criterion 4

Be aware if you join here that there are those that feel you should not be allowed privacy and will happily use dark web apps to check on you because they refuse to trust. Also be aware that despite all the money they get the dev's dont actually add a lot to the game

You are misconstruing the terms "privacy", "transparency", and "accountability". Those are all very different things. 

I did not mention tranparency or accountability. My 3DX life is my business and I choose who I share it with. The fact that some feel entitled to know everything isn't my problem. I am neither a troll or a troublemaker. You want Pandora, fine you have it but just know you are driving people away who do give a shit about their privacy and aren't up to no good.

I just want to pick up on the fun thing Rob was referring to. I don't think anybody said the game was becoming not fun, just that it is less fun than it could be because of incidences of poor behaviour. A relatively smal number of people have said that the poor behaviour they have experienced has been bad enough to cause them to leave. I do think, though, that poor behaviour is not helping people to stay - it is said in marketing that for every complaint there are ten other customers lost who haven't complained.

 

As I see it part of the fun of the game is meeting new, interesting people from different cultures. This is in addition to the basic fun of hanging out with friends. The incidences of poor behaviour do not help the former to get going. In fact they make you, as in me and like minded people, suspicious of noobies. As I've said several times already that I check people's profiles before I decide to respond to them. At times when I'm sitting alone on the beach I'll check the profiles of people with interesting names. Even then I find myself a bit reluctant to start a conversation.

 

That is not good for my game and, in my opinion, not good for the game in general. It's not an imperative but I would rather like to be less cautious about new people and to avoid incidences of poor behaviour. I do feel strongly enough about it to involve myself in discussions about what might be done. And yes I do try my best to overcome my reticence.

The poor behaviour making me leave is people that think Pandora is a good thing

Yes RobT the poll is in a different thread about a different idea, who knows what it would bring if there was a poll on this one.

But yes I have to agree that if we go off other polls that have been done on any idea presented then it would still likely show similar results.

Should that stop us from trying to find something everyone would be happy with?

 

This is about the 4th or 5th time you have asked me to show my alts, so I don't know why you would say you doubt I would as I have each time.

Twiggy and Titch, who I have had since I started and MissyK who is about 18 months old.

Not going to get into what I had used them for, you can go back to the several other times you have had me explain that.

But this time I am going to put it back on you.

It is well known by a lot of people in these forums that you once said in these forums you have a second account in the game.

So if you are declaring yourself so innocent as to be so open about your avis I think you should also say the avis on that 2nd account.

 

Where has anyone said that everyone who objects does because they have alts to hide, I have said I believe the main reason the poll is so one sided is because there are so many want to be able to keep playing the opposite sex, and that anything that will upset that will always attract them to vote.

But I have never, and I don't think anyone in all three of these threads have named anyone for wanting to hide behind alts.

I think I have even mentioned with some that are in these threads who oppose things, that I do believe they don't miss use alts.

 

We have recognised where people do use alts for privacy, even given examples of that ourselves, but also mentioned ideas where those uses would barely be effected.

I have asked for people to explain why it is so important to role players why they must keep their alts anonymous, to which no real relevant answers have been given.

Nothing that would out way the need for something to be put in to help prevent the ease that people have to be able to miss use alts.

Maybe you Rob would like to finally say something really relevant to the discussion and do that, explain why it is so important for role players alts to remain completely anonymous.

 

Oh and by the way, I have been back in the game for a week now and have noticed a couple of things.

One is I have not seen one rape room listed, maybe it is because the message from these forums finally got through, or maybe Gizmo put something in place that we discussed in pms.

Where he said he thought it was a great idea and said we should do this.

 

Also I have asked 6 different people who have been in the game for less than 3 months if they knew about Pandora and none did.

So there goes your theory that everyone now knows about Pandora, but I would agree that most who have been in the game for a while do.

 

Maybe Rob you should start trying to be a little more constructive with your comments and maybe then people might actually start to believe you when you say you are only here to help.

You have missed the point we don't need to justify why we want privacy you need to justify why you think we shouldn't be allowed it and frankly nothing you have said has been anything other than whine about drama that from what I hear you were one of the main instigators of.

I don't see where anyone has asked you or anyone else to submit to things being a certain way. We were having a friendly discussion until a few people turned it into something else by trying to dictate to others how they should play the game. We actually can have an intelligent discussion about things even tho we don't always agree 100% on everything. It's a humble gesture to respect everyone's opinions, even tho you might not agree with them.

Pandora exists due to there being a call for it, the devs could stop it easily in its tracks but have chosen not to due no doubt because a certain minority finds it useful.

I therefore have to either submit to this breach of privacy or walk. I chose to walk

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dont know if this works- on shitty small mobile @ hospital...

.. . as a visitor || just sayn

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Sadly there isn't room for all of us as is seen in this thread. There is room for all of us only if we submit to having our privacy invaded by the use of either Pandora or in game tools as far as a certain percentage of the population is concerned. While they are a minority the devs are obviously listening to them and being lazy about stopping such things as Pandora at best or colluding in Pandora at worst so sending the only message to the dev's they seem to listen to by voting with my wallet

But I do not know what constitutes an avi as being "seen". If someone else were to log in and stay in their room and only pm 1 person for an hour, is that enough to be seen? I don't know the method of how they are collecting the data.

 

I'm not suggesting anything but if I didn't know any better, they seem to have direct access to the database. There's information that seems should not be able to be easily fetched on such a large scaLe like login dates and times.

If you log in and stay in your private room and only pm people and they still see you then they have access to the server simple as that. There at that point simply is no public data for them to scrape as the only traffic to be seen is between you and the server and you and the person you pm (assuming the person you pm isnt a pandora data collector bot)

Rob is likely right we have a fairly good idea of exactly how Pandora works and what it does. Because, I have heard and talked with people who know something about the inner workings of the server, and they have been quite clear about whats available, and how to get it. There are at least two other tools out there that let people connect to the server. They were useful before the world editor for making rooms. I don't think it would be that hard to break Pandora though I actually have some ideas on how to do that, but it seems they decided not to unless the server update they are making will. There is a good chance it might. I think right now having this whole discussion again is basically pointless if your concerned about alts I personally am not, just use Pandora. If they break Pandora then maybe there would be a point to it, but its basically not an issue right now.

I am not concerned about alts in the least. I am concerned about Pandora and I am concerned that people really arent concerned and believe they know how Pandora works. Which as far as I can see is based on Gizmo saying "Don't worry it cant access the 3dx database" . Lets face it if it could he is hardly likely to admit it now is he as he would watch a lot of subs walk out the door so I take his assurances with a large pinch of salt.

You mean you have no idea what it does. I can assure you i know exactly what it does

bolllocks you do unless you wrote it

I've just made up my mind and voted yes, having involved myself in this and the related threads and come to a conclusion. And that is .............................................. anything that makes life difficult for people who bugger about is OK. And that's because all I want from the game is to enjoy the company of my friends (mostly talking totally random stuff), meet new people, meet people from different cultures and have interesting and fun covnersations. The people who mess about impinge on this.

Given that this information already exists in the form of Pandora and is failing to engender the trust you want in the community or stop those intent on mischief from continuing I would ask you why exactly you think this solution would change a thing? Serious question here. You already have all this nothing has changed

It cannot read pms . the only thing is does is collect info in regards to a user id  because every account has only one user id. that enables the account wide ignores but also enables programs such as Pandora to collect info

Actually we don't have any idea what it does. All we have is the word of Gizmo for what it does. The fact that it can tell last logon suggests strongly that it is privy to more than can be publicly gleaned from just looking at profiles. Sorry but given the fact that the dev's have made no attempt whatsoever to prevent it inclines me to distrust them and indeed if it came out at some point there was collusion between the devs here and the people who made Pandora in the form of some api or other for them to gather data I would not be at all surprised. It would certainly not be difficult to decouple alts from the account id for sending publiclly while internally maintaining the account wide id to enable account banning.

Can't understand why such a basic rule isn't already in game. Fully support

What about people who just want to keep their fetishes private? Like for example, let’s say someone is into furries. However, they might not want to share that part of their experience with everyone. So they create FurryTails, an alt account. Why should that person be exposed when they aren’t adding to the problems of a few? From what I’ve seen most that like to play stupid games have more than one account. Hell they’ll even be on at the same time with each account.

<sarcasm>They should be exposed for the greater good of all!!!!! Didnt you listen to Rockster? <sarcasm>

Look you folks who want alts to be exposed you already have this with Pandora however you still don't trust people what makes you think doing this would do anything to change that when you already have the same information. Simple answer is it won't you will still be paranoid and suspicious. The only people impacted by this will be those who aren't actually doing anything wrong. Most people will probably go through 3dx never having these problems, some will have them once and that is unfortunate. A lot of you that are advocating this however seem to be having the problem again and again. Perhaps time to look in a mirror and wonder if perhaps you are the ones contributing to this happening and painting targets on your back somehow.

As I said I have some of you that want this in local chat and world chat and my reaction to what I saw was to put you on account wide ignore even though you weren't interacting with me. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that someone who is a more aggressive type however would instead decide to muck with you instead of just ignoring like a sensible person

Here’s a few basic points spelled out. Sorry about the list but it helps me pull it all together.

 

Pandora as a third party product should not have access to 3dxChat data. Basic data protection considerations.

 

Pandora fulfils a need otherwise it wouldn’t exist in the first place. Enough users are concerned about people using alts, therefore, for Gizmo to consider doing something.

 

It is in Gizmo’s interests to take these discussions in to account as part of his product planning. Basic customer awareness.

 

Ex has come up with a practical suggestion that could go some way to restoring trust in game.

 

We all want 3dxChat to thrive, we enjoy using it for a whole host of reasons.

 

A small minority of people have succeeded in creating a situation where people do not trust each other.

 

So there you go.

If it is Gizmo's best interest to take these discussions into account then he should hear the other side too. My account is cancelled. When I joined the game I didn't know about Pandora. If I had I would never have signed up the same as I wouldn't if the op's suggestion ever made it into game. This is not because I wish to troll or muck with peoples minds but purely because it is down to me how much I share with people and if I don't wish you to know about something that should be my choice.

Yes only one person you might say however as I have said I also play another game like this and when I informed people on my friends list that I had cancelled many have signed up over there too to keep in touch (being free to play helps there ) . So far two have already decided they actually like the other place better and also cancelled their accounts here so that is at least 3 subs Pandora has cost 3dx. I am sure I am not the only person either that has cancelled because of it.

If the op's suggestion was to go ahead I think they need to think how many they would lose over it to satisfy what we have seen from the poll is a small minority.

Voted no here for one simple reason

Number of people on my friends list I talk to regularly 20

Number on my friends list I have had sex with 1

Number of people on my current friends list I would even have seen as they would have been pre filtered by this suggestion probably about 5

You may think this is purely a sex game, for some of us it is also a social game and we actually want to meet and chat to people who aren't exactly the same as us

(btw I still am locked to one response per day which is why I am not replying more in these threads though at least I am not waiting in moderation anymore)

 

Are you and others now prepared to acknowledge there are rather a large number of people in the game that want something done, even if it is the minority, that we should be considered and not just trampled all over when suggestions are made.

23% of the people are not happy having to face what having anonymous alts produces, and that is still rather a large number of people.

As a lot of people do leave the game because of it, who knows how high that figure would be if it was the other way around, if it had always been we had an account identifier and people were trying to change it to it did not.

 

3DX operates in a crowded space there are many games like it. It is the norm in these games for the most part that alts are anonymous. I suspect that those who wish to play alts anonymously would find it easy to go to another game and probably would in sufficient numbers if this was implemented.

An example of why? I have an alt in second life. I think 3 people know its also my main. I prefer it like that as its the only way I can get some peace and quiet at times without a barrage of im's. 

Sorry some people finding problems doesn't override that luxury in my mind and as I have said before I have seen quite a few of those advocating the change in world chat and in my opinion from the way they behave there they bring the problems on themselves to a large extent (note not saying all do)

Bottom line Twiggy its not others to prove why they wish to keep alts anonymous it is down to you who wish to change it to show that the harm it causes outweighs the good parts. If I have friends here and dont wish them to know I am curious about x fetish of which they disapprove why should I not be able to try it out in privacy and instead have to decide whether or not I value my friends more than trying something I am curious about.

From what I see most of those saying alts claim drama are ones who are prone to be drama queens in the first place and it really does not surprise me they attract it

Fairly new user and for sake of declaration here I come from Second life and still see that as home.

So my experience as a new user

Yes local chat is quite quiet depending on where you go. Is it a big issue no don't think so most are just in private chats. Is trust a big issue here, yes for some it seems but I have to say some do seem to take the game far too much as a rl dating site and they are the one who seem to have the issue. However as I said I come from second life where there is no realistic ways of connecting  an avi as an alt of someone you know. Trust there does not seem such a huge issue over there though.

Personally when I meet someone I take the view of giving them the benefit of the doubt and learn about them by chatting to them. Those that lie always trip themselves up sooner or later. I am also quick with the ignore function and frankly I don't even need to interact with you to use it. If I observe you talking in a way I don't want to interact with in local chat or world chat I account wide ignore. There are some in this thread for example that come into that category even though I have never interacted with them directly.

So far I have had no drama issues but then I come here and don't try to be a dick to others. Sadly some of those complaining here about the drama and lack of trust don't seem to live by that maxim

Hello there

I posted in the thread too and like you I couldn't find it and it didn't bring my post needed count down