Men's new pants

[THX]

Is the pant's mesh backwards??

Both new pants look like they are on the Avatar backwards.

Edited October 15, 2019 by THX

[rhet]

It looks like the dude stole a frozen turkey and is smuggling it out in his pants to me...but this could also be the case.

[SusanLouisa]

They just allow more room for hands...

[Twiggy]

I don't particularly like the new pants either, in fact if my hubby ever was to wear something like that I would tell him to go change or I am not going anywhere with him, but everyone to their own and some will like them.

But the big thing is that hasn't seemed to be said in these forums yet is we have been trying to get the meshes for the avis for so long so people could start creating custom content. It had been asked for thousands of times and lots of threads had been made on it with the devs never giving any response. For these guys to have made these pants I think they must have either fluked something or managed to get the meshes. So this could be the start of at least some people creating custom content for the game. I think an idea would be to try to get the devs or the people that made these to let us know where this may go, is he finally letting us get access to the meshes, or maybe has he chosen some people to let them make new clothes, what exactly does it mean.

I know of a lot of people that tried to get information on the mesh but couldn't, people that had lots of experience in making clothes for other games. I am sure they would be interested to find out if they would be able to do so now.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Twiggy

[THX]

I don't think those look like any existing mesh, but new ones. 

If they are made by amateurs and they are testing things out, that's a good thing. But somehow they got the avi bones or 'body' from SexyDevil in order for the meshes to be made. They look better in colors, but horrid in white. The bulge is too low, or else he's hung like a horse with dangly balls the size of softballs and they are a bit to oversized away from the avi body.

 

I agree, if they would give us The UV maps of existing clothing meshes and the ability to texture and use .png for invisibility to make see through and sheer things - that would be awesome sauce.

 

On a more positive note, they seem to be updating weekly and that is a very good sign.

Edited October 22, 2019 by THX

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

3 hours ago, THX said:

The bulge is too low, or else he's hung like a horse with dangly balls the size of softballs and they are a bit to oversized away from the avi body.

omg. why people do surprising by this model? it calls fashion. btw,  half of the men wear it in public in 3dx today.

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

4 hours ago, Twiggy said:

So this could be the start of at least some people creating custom content for the game.

You`re talking about it like it is first time we get a content from users 

[Twiggy]

It is the 1st time we have got clothes made, there has been animations and artwork for clothes, but there has never been any clothes made outside of the devs.

I might be wrong but from what I understand the avi body has a mesh to, like the skin which the clothes need to be made to suite. Maybe it is not called a mesh but it has been my understanding it is. And yes there is also the rig/bones, which we already have had access to through Frenchtouchs pack. The rigging/bones is a standard rig used in 3DS, but the skin/mesh is not, that is my understanding of it anyway from things Lisa has said.

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

1 hour ago, Twiggy said:

It is the 1st time we have got clothes made, there has been animations and artwork for clothes, but there has never been any clothes made outside of the devs.

It`s 3rd or 4th time. We have prickly heels and collars by users. Valentino made heels and Solen made collars if I remember right.

Edited October 22, 2019 by ☙𝔼𝕩❧
add

[Twiggy]

5 hours ago, ☙𝔼𝕩❧ said:

It`s 3rd or 4th time. We have prickly heels and collars by users. Valentino made heels and Solen made collars if I remember right.

Yes, and I think there was hats to, but there has not been any dresses, pants, tops, things that require the body mesh.

 

 

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

18 minutes ago, Twiggy said:

Yes, and I think there was hats to, but there has not been any dresses, pants, tops, things that require the body mesh.

 

 

Shoes are require the body mesh as well as hats, glasses and everything connected with body geometry because it should be rigged to the mesh. I was creating it for sl avatars that actually has similar package as here. I did it for maitreya lara, kemono and other.

Edited October 22, 2019 by ☙𝔼𝕩❧

[Twiggy]

5 hours ago, ☙𝔼𝕩❧ said:

Shoes are require the body mesh as well as hats, glasses and everything connected with body geometry because it should be rigged to the mesh. I was creating it for sl avatars that actually has similar package as here. I did it for maitreya lara, kemono and other.

Yes you need the foot mesh for the shoes and the head mesh or even just top of head mesh for the hats plus the rigging. This is part of what I am trying to find out. Like did the pants just made fit because that part of the body mesh is also standard, maybe they applied the parts of the pants that are close to the skin to parts of the body mesh that are standard and other parts where the bagginess are didn't matter. What I know is, Frenchtouch made some clothes, dresses, and others have as well and they were not added, some were told they were the wrong format but were not given details of why or what the format was. I sent a message once to Lisa with Frenchtouches development pack she was offering in these forums to see if it was correct to use, both the rigging and the body mesh. Her 1st answer was she was interested to see herself, then in her 2nd said the rigging is right but the body mesh is just the standard mesh and is not right. So why have these guys been able to do pants, like did they fluke some parts of the mesh that are the same on both the standard mesh and the mesh used by 3DXChat, did they maybe get the correct body mesh from somewhere, or is my understanding of why we have not seen clothes done before completely wrong. Is there a body mesh that people can use and if so where can people get it. I would hate to see people start making clothes using the standard body mesh just to have them not added because they are as the devs say the wrong format. Frenchtouch gave up when she did hers because she didn't even hear back form them about the clothes she did and that was after she had once had dances she had done added. So lets see if we can find out why some things seem to work and others don't. Lets see if we can answer the question that a lot of custom content creators have asked which is what body mesh do they need.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Twiggy

[THX]

Ex, what you call "fashion" I call armature compared to this.

That is lightyears ahead of the mens pants. Not only does it fit correctly,  they are using transparency for the first time I know of for the sheer areas.

Twiggy, Usually you get the whole  model at once. Never heard of just pieces, but who knows.

About 4-5 years ago there were many of us who paid Utherverse $30-$60 US to purchase the male and female 'bodies' to make clothing meshes with and import into Blender or equivalent.

https://forums.utherverse.com/yaf_postst107642_Updated-Designer-Kit.aspx

 

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/e81b23_cb5f82613a344bd29c286525a13becb0.jpg

Due to changes in either Unity or on Utherverses end, the original Designer Kit could no longer be used as it was incompatible after a Unity 5 update. Dunno if that is the reason, or unrelated to it. My point, it's possible French Touches are absolete also at this point. I dunno, just theorizing based on actual occurrences.  I doubt that designer kit would work here, as there is no  'skin' in that kit under the clothing. The 'skin' polygons are replaced by the clothing to reduce polygons overall.

There was a debate they had that never was solved, between keeping it that way, or creating a 'skin' underneath that would then make transparent clothing and tattoos possible. It appears 3DX opted for this later version I'm guessing.

Maybe Sexydevil provided the meshes and the mens pants meshes were just poorly made. Mabe they used a default or older kit to make them, but I find that unlikely that Sexydevil would accept them unless current 'bodies.'

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by THX

[SusanLouisa]

The maids costume, although very nice and better quality than the new man's pants/shorts, just how useful is it?  In all of the wishes and requests I have seen posted I have not seen one for a maids costume.  

[THX]

46 minutes ago, SusanLouisa said:

The maids costume, although very nice and better quality than the new man's pants/shorts, just how useful is it?  In all of the wishes and requests I have seen posted I have not seen one for a maids costume.  

 

 

That's a good point. I am referring to it from the technical aspect.

 

See the see through areas of the dress? That means they can make sheer anything, and sections that are sheer where others are not. This is just the first image I pulled up. See how certain areas are sheer? This is huge.

 

 

 

It also means they can make tattoos that would show through sheer layers (if they add a tatto layer like say panties or bra have their own layer).

Edited October 23, 2019 by THX

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

8 hours ago, THX said:

Ex, what you call "fashion" I call armature compared to this.

That is lightyears ahead of the mens pants. Not only does it fit correctly,  they are using transparency for the first time I know of for the sheer areas.

Twiggy, Usually you get the whole  model at once. Never heard of just pieces, but who knows.

About 4-5 years ago there were many of us who paid Utherverse $30-$60 US to purchase the male and female 'bodies' to make clothing meshes with and import into Blender or equivalent.

https://forums.utherverse.com/yaf_postst107642_Updated-Designer-Kit.aspx

 

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/e81b23_cb5f82613a344bd29c286525a13becb0.jpg

Due to changes in either Unity or on Utherverses end, the original Designer Kit could no longer be used as it was incompatible after a Unity 5 update. Dunno if that is the reason, or unrelated to it. My point, it's possible French Touches are absolete also at this point. I dunno, just theorizing based on actual occurrences.  I doubt that designer kit would work here, as there is no  'skin' in that kit under the clothing. The 'skin' polygons are replaced by the clothing to reduce polygons overall.

There was a debate they had that never was solved, between keeping it that way, or creating a 'skin' underneath that would then make transparent clothing and tattoos possible. It appears 3DX opted for this later version I'm guessing.

Maybe Sexydevil provided the meshes and the mens pants meshes were just poorly made. Mabe they used a default or older kit to make them, but I find that unlikely that Sexydevil would accept them unless current 'bodies.'

 

It's just my opinion. I could be wrong. Transparency is not something " wow!". It's okay if it needed. It is a combination of materials that are simple to make. In this model, you mentioned, the same combination between materials. That's just other effect.

8 hours ago, THX said:

I doubt that designer kit would work here, as there is no  'skin' in that kit under the clothing. The 'skin' polygons are replaced by the clothing to reduce polygons overall.

Who did say that there is no skin under the clothing? Maybe some of them is hidden. 

8 hours ago, THX said:

There was a debate they had that never was solved, between keeping it that way, or creating a 'skin' underneath that would then make transparent clothing and tattoos possible. It appears 3DX opted for this later version I'm guessing.

Maybe Sexydevil provided the meshes and the mens pants meshes were just poorly made. Mabe they used a default or older kit to make them, but I find that unlikely that Sexydevil would accept them unless current 'bodies.'

Creating "skin underneath" is oldest thing for games like RLC and old second life and others.

What kind of mistake (or several) did you notice in these new pants? The shape?  it depends of anyones taste. I see many guys love it and use it. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by ☙𝔼𝕩❧

[Twiggy]

I don't know about other games but in 3DXChat I am fairly certain the skin has always been a mesh under the clothes, we have always had poke throughs appear in certain clothes where skin would show which wouldn't happen if the clothes replaced the skin mesh. 

You can have 2 different body meshes that are similar and does happen quite a lot, where a company makes subtle changes to allow for the body they want for their game. For example often the feet and legs remain the same, sometimes the middle torso does as well and changes are made just to certain areas. If clothes are made to suite those parts that haven't changed then they will work on both body meshes as the parts they were made for are the same on both. With 3DXChat body meshes it appears the feet are the same as the standard 3DS body meshes, so shoes made for the standard body mesh will also work on the 3DXChat mesh. I could be wrong, but it seems likely that is the case to me and these are the things I am trying to find out. Like a lot of things we have been left to try figure things out ourselves as the devs have never answered any questions in regards to what is really needed or why different clothes that have been presented to them won't work. Also I think transparencies have been possible for quite for a long time now, I know for certain it has been possible in Unity, I think they just had not made use of it up til now.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Twiggy

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

Lisa was writing somewhere in the forum, but I lost the thread. I found this one 

 

[Twiggy]

That thread was created by Ash without much help from the devs, he did his best but had to change it a number of times and still didn't end up with the correct information and a lot of questions not answered. From memory the package he links to from Frenchtouch isn't even the right package, it was a different package she posted somewhere that has the body meshes, the one he linked to only had the rigging for animations. There is not enough information in that thread to even really get started. What is needed is something like THX linked to for RLC, where they supply a designer kit for developers. 

[Aliviax]

On 10/15/2019 at 8:52 PM, THX said:

Is the pant's mesh backwards??

Both new pants look like they are on the Avatar backwards.

Hey i just wanted to say from the lil i saw cause ofc i cant wear those pants @Redji n @Manyasha did a good job 

those pants are trend for younger people way younger

 

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

2 hours ago, Twiggy said:

That thread was created by Ash without much help from the devs, he did his best but had to change it a number of times and still didn't end up with the correct information and a lot of questions not answered. From memory the package he links to from Frenchtouch isn't even the right package, it was a different package she posted somewhere that has the body meshes, the one he linked to only had the rigging for animations. There is not enough information in that thread to even really get started. What is needed is something like THX linked to for RLC, where they supply a designer kit for developers. 

For a right rigging an artist need a right body mesh(and skeleton). Someone said it is genesis 3 or 4. I still didn`t check. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by ☙𝔼𝕩❧
and skeleton

[SusanLouisa]

1 hour ago, Aliviax said:

those pants are trend for younger people way younger

Yes, my son's when crawling and in diapers wore something similar.  I can see how they would be great if skateboarding or hiking or even working out at the gym.  My man makes them look good.

[Twiggy]

22 minutes ago, ☙𝔼𝕩❧ said:

For a right rigging an artist need a right body mesh(and skeleton). Someone said it is genesis 3 or 4. I still didn`t check. 

No I am about 99.9% sure they are not genesis figures, would be good if they were, but no.

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

genesis 3(or 4) model

Another one based on genesis 3

Genesis 8

There can be different models based on genesis. 3dx has their own one(i guess, i dont know really).

Edited October 23, 2019 by ☙𝔼𝕩❧
add

[THX]

6 hours ago, ☙𝔼𝕩❧ said:

It's just my opinion. I could be wrong. Transparency is not something " wow!". It's okay if it needed. It is a combination of materials that are simple to make. In this model, you mentioned, the same combination between materials. That's just other effect.

Who did say that there is no skin under the clothing? Maybe some of them is hidden. 

Creating "skin underneath" is oldest thing for games like RLC and old second life and others.

What kind of mistake (or several) did you notice in these new pants? The shape?  it depends of anyones taste. I see many guys love it and use it. 

Transparency can be used for many things if the Avi has a skin underneath. You can use existing meshes to create multiple effects. Hell, you can even shorten long women's boots to make shorter ones just with transparency.

As I stated earlier, the model kit from Curio (Utherverse, RLC). Has no solid body mesh per say. They used a technique that the clothes replaced the body sections underneath to save polygons. To the best of my knowledge, that way is still used in there next attempt called Oasis. When you look under the gaps of say a pair of mens shorts, you see nothing but invisible under the shorts, no skin. It definitly eliminates bleed through, but at the cost of not being able to use true transparency and the need to have clothing fit the Avi perfectly.

The knee part you highlighted around the mens pants looks like a bump map to me and most likely has a specular map too, along with a different texture. The flaws are most apparent in the shorts version. They are too far away from the avi's hips and the bulge in the front too low. It is nothing about style and everything about technique.

DAZ models as far as I rember don't work in this application. There was discussion about them in other forums and if I rember correctly no was the answer.

Edited October 23, 2019 by THX