DJ'ing in public Rooms

[chloe]

If you try to make money with the radio stream everything looks different of cause. So better not ask for money or place adverts in your stream ^^

[Aliviax]

you wrong chloe lol advertizing the stream service has nothing with what u say about djing for money lol where do u read those stuff anyway (stop false slander )

Same think happened to second life companies did checked the streams djs there do it on their own risk if no royalties 

same thing apply here in public rooms  having ur stream mode private dont make it private still can be heard from public locations .

 

So to sum up what i say is ..from what i know ..im reffering only to the public 3dxchat locations n not ur own rooms 

So my personal advice is to avoid dj in love island fresco sin club night club n stick to ur own rooms..this what i say 

wanna hear it cool dont wanna hear it im cool again lol

its just my advice lol do whatever you want but remeber if you dont pay royalties ur always at risk !

[chloe]

Lol so you study now beside something with 3d art also law? I am pretty impressed. I would avoid spinning in public locations too, but not because I fear to get sued. Before this happens 3dx get the bills.

 

A huge difference between 3dx and second life is that 3dx has a paywall. You can't get in for free. This restrict the possible amount of people which can be reached dramatically.

 

I would say the risk is higher to get hit by an Asteroid as to get a bill for you "illegal" music streaming here and than, even in public rooms. So please stop to spread fear here.

 

 

btw my "get payed for DJing" was a joke ^^

[Niblette]

As long as the devs control who can DJ in public rooms, and then they delegate that responsibility; I can see why they might not want to take extra risk with letting people DJ in public places. It seems kind of pointless to me though even making it a possibility if it is something that is not going to be open to everyone. I think the community simply moved in a different direction, and DJing in public places is kind of a pointless thing right now, since most DJ's won't have the licences to play, and that is not where most people are at anyways.

[Mar Mohan]

I'll clarify this, The only person responsible for pay anything is the person who owns the stream who is the person that is who legally bites the bullet if something is played on the stream that wasn't purchased, no royalties get paid, it doesn't matter if any users plays on that stream, it is the responsibility of the stream owner, period.  You can argue all you want but that's what it boils down to.  The owners of 3DX Chat can be included in the lawsuit but in the end they won't have to pay anything because they are not the ones who own the stream, if they did then, yes they would have to pay.  When a DJ goes to a nightclub to DJ, they sign a legal binding contract written up by a lawyer that removes the nightclub owner from any legal responsibility for music that the DJ plays as they don't provide the music only the location with which the DJ is playing in.   It is the responsibility of the DJ and I know because I've signed them and I pay for everything.  The only thing we don't have to pay for is the power that is used to run anything because that much be provided, they don't provide any equipment unless they offer it because of how they have the sound system set up that you hook into, otherwise it's up to the DJ to pay for all of that.  That being said, IMVU had faced a class action lawsuit a while ago regarding music they provided and the songs done in a voice box by the users through a 3rd party i.e. Creator.  IMVU removed their music store, refund all monies spent to buy the music as well as remove/make all songs done on a voice box and pay countless in royalties for the music in their music store. Having been on the receiving end of that money while it wasn't much, IMVU did what they were legally obligated to do.  Games such as IMVU, SecondLife and so on, it doesn't matter if they have a public room open, providing a way for someone can stream music, it is the legal obligation of the user who plays the music on their stream to pay all that is required.  The streams from the radio stations that are used in game have that legal obligation and provide their stream to be used in any form across the internet, if you want to say that 3DX is legally obligated to pay for it then they would be legally obligated to pay for the radio stations music played by users but they're not and won't be.  It's a complex issue and if anyone is truly concerned about the legal ramifications of playing music on here, go talk to a lawyer, bring your computer with you or ask if you can show them the game, you'll find out exactly what they are in the end.  I know my legal obligations and pay them accordingly, I can't speak for anyone else.

I'm adding this to what I said.  The only way that 3DX or any other game what may have you would be responsible is if it what a stream they provide then yes that all falls on the stream owner.  If the rooms and yes it includes private as it's still on the internet and you are using a stream that is on a public IP even if you're not sharing it out to the world, anyone by chance puts in your information randomly and is able to listen, which can and has happened to others.  It's simply public as it is on the internet, period.  If you let someone use your stream, you are responsible for the content that is played on it, it is your job to make sure the person using your stream does things legally, even if they don't you are the one held accountable not them.  The public radio stations are like you listening to music in your home or car through a device, the station pays all the legal aspects to be able to play it so you can listen in.  The owners of 3X only provide the means to use a stream they don't actually have the stream, that's where the difference is and falls on the owner of the stream.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Mar Mohan

[Niblette]

It seems to me that music which is played in public places can be considered part of the game itself, since its not something anyone other then the devs can set or change, so the devs have responsibility for what is played in those places. The devs are taking on more risk and responsibility having it that way, since it means that can 3DX isn't simply a hosting service. I would think from the devs point of view the best thing would be to make it, so there isn't an argument that 3DX is not just a hosting service for music, and make sure that is the case in all the places in the game. The current setup seems to me a hold over from when there were mods in the game.

[Aliviax]

I'll clarify this, The only person responsible for pay anything is the person who owns the stream who is the person that is who legally bites the bullet if something is played on the stream that wasn't purchased, no royalties get paid, it doesn't matter if any users plays on that stream, it is the responsibility of the stream owner, period.  You can argue all you want but that's what it boils down to.  The owners of 3DX Chat can be included in the lawsuit but in the end they won't have to pay anything because they are not the ones who own the stream, if they did then, yes they would have to pay.  When a DJ goes to a nightclub to DJ, they sign a legal binding contract written up by a lawyer that removes the nightclub owner from any legal responsibility for music that the DJ plays as they don't provide the music only the location with which the DJ is playing in.   It is the responsibility of the DJ and I know because I've signed them and I pay for everything.  The only thing we don't have to pay for is the power that is used to run anything because that much be provided, they don't provide any equipment unless they offer it because of how they have the sound system set up that you hook into, otherwise it's up to the DJ to pay for all of that.  That being said, IMVU had faced a class action lawsuit a while ago regarding music they provided and the songs done in a voice box by the users through a 3rd party i.e. Creator.  IMVU removed their music store, refund all monies spent to buy the music as well as remove/make all songs done on a voice box and pay countless in royalties for the music in their music store. Having been on the receiving end of that money while it wasn't much, IMVU did what they were legally obligated to do.  Games such as IMVU, SecondLife and so on, it doesn't matter if they have a public room open, providing a way for someone can stream music, it is the legal obligation of the user who plays the music on their stream to pay all that is required.  The streams from the radio stations that are used in game have that legal obligation and provide their stream to be used in any form across the internet, if you want to say that 3DX is legally obligated to pay for it then they would be legally obligated to pay for the radio stations music played by users but they're not and won't be.  It's a complex issue and if anyone is truly concerned about the legal ramifications of playing music on here, go talk to a lawyer, bring your computer with you or ask if you can show them the game, you'll find out exactly what they are in the end.  I know my legal obligations and pay them accordingly, I can't speak for anyone else.

I agree with what Marmohan said overall .

 

Now about dj 3dxchat has one official dj ( Lussian ) that is responsible when he streams music if that music is legit n if lussians pays royalties .Lussian has told me that cause of his job he has all that covered but the other djs that go there arent covered as Mar mohan said n expalined .

your choice people

[Aliviax]

Lol so you study now beside something with 3d art also law? I am pretty impressed. I would avoid spinning in public locations too, but not because I fear to get sued. Before this happens 3dx get the bills.

 

A huge difference between 3dx and second life is that 3dx has a paywall. You can't get in for free. This restrict the possible amount of people which can be reached dramatically.

 

I would say the risk is higher to get hit by an Asteroid as to get a bill for you "illegal" music streaming here and than, even in public rooms. So please stop to spread fear here.

 

 

btw my "get payed for DJing" was a joke ^^

chloe please dont get me wrong im the kind of person that will say to others dont risk if i think its a risk.

we may disagree on stuff  but its a game i dont take it by heart and i will always try warn people if i think its a risk .

you dj in so many parties why u wanna go djs in risky public rooms? i dont try lecture u or anything i try only warn n tell u that it doesnt worth the risk

anyway have fun

[chloe]

chloe please dont get me wrong im the kind of person that will say to others dont risk if i think its a risk.

we may disagree on stuff  but its a game i dont take it by heart and i will always try warn people if i think its a risk .

you dj in so many parties why u wanna go djs in risky public rooms? i dont try lecture u or anything i try only warn n tell u that it doesnt worth the risk

anyway have fun

 

 

So better warn people to DJ anywhere because there is no difference between streaming to a user room or to a 3dx public location. Really not.

[Aliviax]

chloe there is a difference djing in ur own room and djing in a public room, even tho both might be risky option one in  a virtual world u can claim u do a party in ur house, like real life that no music company can have a say if u throw a party in ur own house n play music ,but if u decide to play in a public place in real life music companies can have a say ,same in 3dxchat its a virtual world ur room is ur room n public place is public place both are risky but in ur own house there are windows u can use in case of court .

 

i maybe wrong or i may be right but please everyone be carefull thats my final words stay safe n have fun 

[chloe]

nobody care about the room Alivia ^^

[Mar Mohan]

I'll clarify this, The only person responsible for pay anything is the person who owns the stream who is the person that is who legally bites the bullet if something is played on the stream that wasn't purchased, no royalties get paid, it doesn't matter if any users plays on that stream, it is the responsibility of the stream owner, period.  You can argue all you want but that's what it boils down to.  The owners of 3DX Chat can be included in the lawsuit but in the end they won't have to pay anything because they are not the ones who own the stream, if they did then, yes they would have to pay.  When a DJ goes to a nightclub to DJ, they sign a legal binding contract written up by a lawyer that removes the nightclub owner from any legal responsibility for music that the DJ plays as they don't provide the music only the location with which the DJ is playing in.   It is the responsibility of the DJ and I know because I've signed them and I pay for everything.  The only thing we don't have to pay for is the power that is used to run anything because that much be provided, they don't provide any equipment unless they offer it because of how they have the sound system set up that you hook into, otherwise it's up to the DJ to pay for all of that.  That being said, IMVU had faced a class action lawsuit a while ago regarding music they provided and the songs done in a voice box by the users through a 3rd party i.e. Creator.  IMVU removed their music store, refund all monies spent to buy the music as well as remove/make all songs done on a voice box and pay countless in royalties for the music in their music store. Having been on the receiving end of that money while it wasn't much, IMVU did what they were legally obligated to do.  Games such as IMVU, SecondLife and so on, it doesn't matter if they have a public room open, providing a way for someone can stream music, it is the legal obligation of the user who plays the music on their stream to pay all that is required.  The streams from the radio stations that are used in game have that legal obligation and provide their stream to be used in any form across the internet, if you want to say that 3DX is legally obligated to pay for it then they would be legally obligated to pay for the radio stations music played by users but they're not and won't be.  It's a complex issue and if anyone is truly concerned about the legal ramifications of playing music on here, go talk to a lawyer, bring your computer with you or ask if you can show them the game, you'll find out exactly what they are in the end.  I know my legal obligations and pay them accordingly, I can't speak for anyone else.

 

I'm adding this to what I said.  The only way that 3DX or any other game what may have you would be responsible is if it what a stream they provide then yes that all falls on the stream owner.  If the rooms and yes it includes private as it's still on the internet and you are using a stream that is on a public IP even if you're not sharing it out to the world, anyone by chance puts in your information randomly and is able to listen, which can and has happened to others.  It's simply public as it is on the internet, period.  If you let someone use your stream, you are responsible for the content that is played on it, it is your job to make sure the person using your stream does things legally, even if they don't you are the one held accountable not them.  The public radio stations are like you listening to music in your home or car through a device, the station pays all the legal aspects to be able to play it so you can listen in.  The owners of 3X only provide the means to use a stream they don't actually have the stream, that's where the difference is and falls on the owner of the stream.

I'm quoting myself on this.  It does not matter if in a public room or a user room, you own the stream you are responsible to pay all that is required by not doing so, if you do get caught you can't use the excuse that it's like playing music in your house, that won't get you anywhere legally.  You as the owner of the stream are responsible for what is played on there, the costs from the music itself or have the expressed written consent for all those involved in making the song(s), paying all required royalties and so on.  It's on the internet and therefore it is public.

[Aliviax]

Radio for the win    

[Twiggy]

As always discussions on this matter producers a pile of misleading information.

Even some of what I have said is not entirely correct as I was working off memory from having had to review all this over 4 years ago.

So before I added this comment I made a phone call directly to APRA to refresh my understanding of things.

I asked questions about the licensing I would need for creating a game, one where players could be DJs and stream music to other players in user created clubs and dance rooms.

 

For starters where it has been mentioned it is always the responsibility of the stream owner is wrong.

It has been successfully argued in court that now acknowledges such a thing as controlling software.

For example, someone establishes an Internet radio station and pays for licensing to be able to stream to 6,000 people.

Someone else creates a website that enables people to tune into that stream and generates another 6,000 listeners.

That website controls the stream, volume and such, and if you close that website the music stops.

That website is classed as the controlling software.

The original streamer cannot be held responsible for royalties for the extra 6,000 listeners, the website that is adding those listeners is responsible.

 

A game where it controls the stream in the same way, like 3DXChat does, both in public and private rooms would be the controlling software.

 

Any arrangements made by the owners of the controlling software to cover licensing of music with 3rd parties, such as players in the game who DJ does not take away their responsibilities.

If they were to be made to prove all royalties are being paid it will be up to 3DXChat to obtain all the proof of licensing from the individuals in the game that have been playing music.

That information would need to verify that royalties have been paid to the invester5gating agency.

 

For example,

Lets say ASCAP investigated 3DXChat.

They would determine how many people listen to music through the game for how many hours to determine how many songs have been streamed.

ASCAP do not cover all artistes, all songs, they only cover the artists that are registered through ASCAP.

So they have a formula to determine the percentage of plays that would represent how many ar4e ASCAPS.

If they do not see any proof of royalty payments they can attribute to 3DXChat they would then contact 3DXChat and ask for proof of royalty payments/ licensing.

It is then up to 3DXChat to provide that proof, it may be their own or licensing used by 3rd parties who play music through the controlling software.

All the licensing combined has to be able to cover what ASCAP has estimated to be the numbers required to be covered.

If it falls short then 3DXChat is responsible for the short fall.

 

Now the royalties that are due vary from different services and different royalty collection agencies.

Pandora being the highest pays 1.6 cents per stream where as others pay point 3 cents per stream.

Either way they can lead to very high numbers when a service is open 24 hours a day.

Lets say we work on point 5 cents per song per stream.

For that we need to have the average amount of players logged in at any given time.

For every 100 players the royalties would amount to between 5 and 6 thousand dollars every month.

So if 3DXChat averages say 400 players online at any given time then royalties would amount to over $20,000 a month.

 

400 x point 5 cents x 15 songs per hour x 24 hours x 30 days.

 

So unless 3DXChat stipulates very strongly in its TOS that all players are responsible for licensing and royalties they cannot seek any payment towards the royalties owing.

Even then if they do add that to their TOS they would need to keep a very tight record of who streams music so they can offer that as proof to ask for payment.

The agencies collecting the royalties would not do that work for 3DXChat, they would only be interested in getting payment from 3DXChat.

It would be up to 3DXChat to collect as much as it could towards that payment.

They are the controlling software supplying the listeners and gaining profit for doing so.

 

Now on top of all of that it is not easy to cover royalty payments completely.

If you take a blanket license through ASCAP you are only covered for artists songs that are registered with ASCAP for the amount of songs you have registered for, "so many songs and listeners per hour for so many hours per month.

To be covered for every song played you need to go through an agency that offers forwarding to all agencies.

Then you need to keep a record of all the meta data for each and every song played, so the ISRC code can determine which country the artist is from and allow the agency in that country to know who owns the rights to the different parts of that song that require royalty payments.

[Niblette]

My take on this is slightly different, but I agree that 3DX could be responsible for paying royalties if they are setting the stream themselves. Which they clearly are for the stations on the radio, the changing room, world editor, and in public places, since they have one of their associates setting the streams, and they should know if its an infringing stream or not. I don't think that 3DX having a place to rebroadcast a stream really counts as them controlling it though. For one thing people can listen to that stream without 3DX if they know the URL, so its not 3DX broadcasting it in the first place, and for another it is possible the stream is not infringing content 3DX doesn't know it is, and its against the game rules to broadcast infringing content. I think its just like youtube, or something like that. The person responsible is the person who is knowingly infringing. Sometimes ignorance is an excuse if a user is breaking the rules.

 

"2.22. The use of copyrighted, trademarked, patented, classified, or restricted material or information and the violation of any rights of any party, including rights of privacy or publicity is prohibited."

[Mar Mohan]

As always discussions on this matter producers a pile of misleading information.

Even some of what I have said is not entirely correct as I was working off memory from having had to review all this over 4 years ago.

So before I added this comment I made a phone call directly to APRA to refresh my understanding of things.

I asked questions about the licensing I would need for creating a game, one where players could be DJs and stream music to other players in user created clubs and dance rooms.

 

For starters where it has been mentioned it is always the responsibility of the stream owner is wrong.

It has been successfully argued in court that now acknowledges such a thing as controlling software.

For example, someone establishes an Internet radio station and pays for licensing to be able to stream to 6,000 people.

Someone else creates a website that enables people to tune into that stream and generates another 6,000 listeners.

That website controls the stream, volume and such, and if you close that website the music stops.

That website is classed as the controlling software.

The original streamer cannot be held responsible for royalties for the extra 6,000 listeners, the website that is adding those listeners is responsible.

 

A game where it controls the stream in the same way, like 3DXChat does, both in public and private rooms would be the controlling software.

 

Any arrangements made by the owners of the controlling software to cover licensing of music with 3rd parties, such as players in the game who DJ does not take away their responsibilities.

If they were to be made to prove all royalties are being paid it will be up to 3DXChat to obtain all the proof of licensing from the individuals in the game that have been playing music.

That information would need to verify that royalties have been paid to the invester5gating agency.

 

For example,

Lets say ASCAP investigated 3DXChat.

They would determine how many people listen to music through the game for how many hours to determine how many songs have been streamed.

ASCAP do not cover all artistes, all songs, they only cover the artists that are registered through ASCAP.

So they have a formula to determine the percentage of plays that would represent how many ar4e ASCAPS.

If they do not see any proof of royalty payments they can attribute to 3DXChat they would then contact 3DXChat and ask for proof of royalty payments/ licensing.

It is then up to 3DXChat to provide that proof, it may be their own or licensing used by 3rd parties who play music through the controlling software.

All the licensing combined has to be able to cover what ASCAP has estimated to be the numbers required to be covered.

If it falls short then 3DXChat is responsible for the short fall.

 

Now the royalties that are due vary from different services and different royalty collection agencies.

Pandora being the highest pays 1.6 cents per stream where as others pay point 3 cents per stream.

Either way they can lead to very high numbers when a service is open 24 hours a day.

Lets say we work on point 5 cents per song per stream.

For that we need to have the average amount of players logged in at any given time.

For every 100 players the royalties would amount to between 5 and 6 thousand dollars every month.

So if 3DXChat averages say 400 players online at any given time then royalties would amount to over $20,000 a month.

 

400 x point 5 cents x 15 songs per hour x 24 hours x 30 days.

 

So unless 3DXChat stipulates very strongly in its TOS that all players are responsible for licensing and royalties they cannot seek any payment towards the royalties owing.

Even then if they do add that to their TOS they would need to keep a very tight record of who streams music so they can offer that as proof to ask for payment.

The agencies collecting the royalties would not do that work for 3DXChat, they would only be interested in getting payment from 3DXChat.

It would be up to 3DXChat to collect as much as it could towards that payment.

They are the controlling software supplying the listeners and gaining profit for doing so.

 

Now on top of all of that it is not easy to cover royalty payments completely.

If you take a blanket license through ASCAP you are only covered for artists songs that are registered with ASCAP for the amount of songs you have registered for, "so many songs and listeners per hour for so many hours per month.

To be covered for every song played you need to go through an agency that offers forwarding to all agencies.

Then you need to keep a record of all the meta data for each and every song played, so the ISRC code can determine which country the artist is from and allow the agency in that country to know who owns the rights to the different parts of that song that require royalty payments.

I'm not going there with you as I know what the fuck I'm talking about.  It's always you're right and know it all.  I think it's about time you fully understand how things work before you comment.  This isn't your expertise and giving a response is pointless.  How about you contact them in writing, put their actual response in here, hell I'll even contact them and put it here.  The controlling software is SAMS, VitrualDJ, WinAmp or whatever the person is using to DJ with as they are the ones playing the music, so they control it, not anyone else.  The person you claim that posts the link on their site as they control the stream, volume and such when you actually have to use the software I stated to run the stream allowing music or drops (commercials, announcements).  The person who posted the link on the website doesn't have that control only the person who owns the stream.  You do realize the stream actually gives a report on how many listeners have tuned in at any given moment.  I say this because you can go into a room that has 100 people in it but I can assure there isn't 100 people listening in to the stream, not to mention anyone listening to the stream outside of it.  You do realize that 3DX Chat uses radio stations on the radios for users to listen to by what you just wrote, as 3DX is the one who posted their links to the radio they would be responsible to pay for the users tuned into those radio streams not the radio streams themselves, that actually pay for all listeners who tune into their stream.  I guess you might want to check with 3DX about that since as you stated they are legally responsible to pay for it. I'm sure 3DX won't mind it coming from your pocket then because you stated it.  You pay for every listener that tunes in to your stream no matter who they are or who has the link posted some where.  You the stream owner are the one who pays for the listener, not anyone else.  Please do post the actual court cases as I'm sure everyone would love to see where the streamer isn't help accountable for someone posting their link letting others join in.  I could sit here and scan in all the legal paperwork, the actual formulas used to calculate what needs to be paid, what needs to be in a legal written expressed consent if you've been asked or have permission to play a song, all the actual requirements even for music that comes from other countries and so on but I'm not going to sit here and waste my time because as it's been stated before and will again, a true DJ knows what the fuck they need to do to be legal, I clearly do as I am a legal DJ as I meet all the legal requirements needed.  I have helped others become legal DJ so they meet all the requirements.  It's always anyone and everyone don't know, just you.

[Twiggy]

I find it so insulting when you carry on like this in these forums, like you are the only one that can possibly know anything and everyone else is full of crap.

You are the one that constantly makes claims on knowing everything and having worked in every industry with a thorough knowledge on any subject talked about in these forums, but you have the cheek to try and accuse me of being that way.

The controlling software that he talk4ed about is not SAMS, Virtual DJ or any of the streaming software, he referred to it being a website, game or anything that takes control of the stream and delivers it's content to the users using that software.

A link as you say is something entirely different, a link only links to the page that the streamer has supplied, it does not take control of the stream.

For radio stations, as in the ones in 3DXChat, if 3DXChat is investigated they can refer to the licenses they have as being part of the coverage for music played through 3DXChat.

So if there is an agreement, or a statement on those radio station website that say they allow such use of their streams then those songs are covered.

 

You claim to be completely legal in what you do, that you meet all the legal requirements, but not once have you stated what those legal requirements are and how you have met them.

All of your statements are always asking people to take your word for it, but you insist that others should offer proof.

Yes it may not be my expertise but I doubt very much it is yours either and although it is not my expertise I have done things where I had to find out information on it all.

At one time around 5 years ago I was involved in developing a website where there was going to be music streaming.

After that I was placing music for 3 different artists I know on the Internet to places like iTunes and such through CDBaby.

To do that I had to register all their tracks with the agencies, get things like ISRCs and retail codes for each track, then handled the returns including royalty payments for streams, which I have to say was a joke.

$1.72 for 42,000 plays.

Hmm, from what you say it sounds like you are trying to claim you get permission from every artist whos songs you play, like written consent from them, lol.

I suppose you could go about it that way and it is a common belief that you have to do that.

But people that know what they are doing just register with the correct agencies who supply that consent for all their artists, no legal written expressed consent required as the agencies have already taken care of that.

 

I don't DJ. but I have performed and have been around the music industry since I was 13.

I for one would like to know what you feel is required for you to be a legal DJ in a place like 3DXChat.

You claim you have met all the legal requirements yet not once have you said how you need to do so.

You have only ever claimed that you do.

So please let everyone know what they should be doing.

If everyone is paying what's required then 3DXChat themselves don't have a problem.

They could simply ask everyone to show their proof of payments which they could then send to any investigating agency.

 

Oh and by the way I am not saying that people who stream music through 3DXChat cannot be held responsible for royalties, they can if the agencies choose to do so.

What I am saying is they are very unlikely to do that, they will go 3DXChat and make them do that.

It is 3DXChat that is supplying a game where you can go in and listen to music, you decide that by enabling the music inside the game.

It does not matter to the agencies where that music comes from except for any royalties covered by the supplier that can be used to show royalties paid for the music supplied to the listeners in 3DXChat.

[Xizi]

I don't really think that any big company really gives a single fuck about 3dxchat. Too small fish and also with a pay-wall.

[Chilles]

Do we still talk about royalties for copyright Music?

 

If... It's very easy and simple. This person who use copyright Music, to play it for a public audiences with or without the target to earn money needs to have the Licences and the permission.

Providing a tool that allows playback of 3rd part music sources like online radios or user owned private music streams isn't responsible for royalties.

 

3DXChat self doesn't use their Servers for upload or stream music, they use online radios which paid the necessary licenses.

It's not the fault of 3DXChat when ppl abuse this system and use it to put private or pirate music streams

This counts equally for private and public rooms when the audiences has a public access

 

Would it be different then every music player and broadcast software programmer would have to pay license fees  

This would complicate matters because licenses do not have to be paid twice ^^

 

But well opinions are free and at least counts just what's written in the respective license agreements.

[Mar Mohan]

I find it so insulting when you carry on like this in these forums, like you are the only one that can possibly know anything and everyone else is full of crap.

You are the one that constantly makes claims on knowing everything and having worked in every industry with a thorough knowledge on any subject talked about in these forums, but you have the cheek to try and accuse me of being that way.

The controlling software that he talk4ed about is not SAMS, Virtual DJ or any of the streaming software, he referred to it being a website, game or anything that takes control of the stream and delivers it's content to the users using that software.

A link as you say is something entirely different, a link only links to the page that the streamer has supplied, it does not take control of the stream.

For radio stations, as in the ones in 3DXChat, if 3DXChat is investigated they can refer to the licenses they have as being part of the coverage for music played through 3DXChat.

So if there is an agreement, or a statement on those radio station website that say they allow such use of their streams then those songs are covered.

 

You claim to be completely legal in what you do, that you meet all the legal requirements, but not once have you stated what those legal requirements are and how you have met them.

All of your statements are always asking people to take your word for it, but you insist that others should offer proof.

Yes it may not be my expertise but I doubt very much it is yours either and although it is not my expertise I have done things where I had to find out information on it all.

At one time around 5 years ago I was involved in developing a website where there was going to be music streaming.

After that I was placing music for 3 different artists I know on the Internet to places like iTunes and such through CDBaby.

To do that I had to register all their tracks with the agencies, get things like ISRCs and retail codes for each track, then handled the returns including royalty payments for streams, which I have to say was a joke.

$1.72 for 42,000 plays.

Hmm, from what you say it sounds like you are trying to claim you get permission from every artist whos songs you play, like written consent from them, lol.

I suppose you could go about it that way and it is a common belief that you have to do that.

But people that know what they are doing just register with the correct agencies who supply that consent for all their artists, no legal written expressed consent required as the agencies have already taken care of that.

 

I don't DJ. but I have performed and have been around the music industry since I was 13.

I for one would like to know what you feel is required for you to be a legal DJ in a place like 3DXChat.

You claim you have met all the legal requirements yet not once have you said how you need to do so.

You have only ever claimed that you do.

So please let everyone know what they should be doing.

If everyone is paying what's required then 3DXChat themselves don't have a problem.

They could simply ask everyone to show their proof of payments which they could then send to any investigating agency.

 

Oh and by the way I am not saying that people who stream music through 3DXChat cannot be held responsible for royalties, they can if the agencies choose to do so.

What I am saying is they are very unlikely to do that, they will go 3DXChat and make them do that.

It is 3DXChat that is supplying a game where you can go in and listen to music, you decide that by enabling the music inside the game.

It does not matter to the agencies where that music comes from except for any royalties covered by the supplier that can be used to show royalties paid for the music supplied to the listeners in 3DXChat.

Look through this forum, I even stated in a thread that Alivia started about having DJs in a room that bought all their music and show her proof they did so they could DJ and others of exactly what it takes to be legal, Chilles has said the same thing.  So don't sit here and tell me I never said anything, that is not the only time I've said it as I said it back in 2015 and several times since.  I don't care how insulted you are this is something you are stating and don't know something about where I do as I am a DJ.  You stated that a person using a stream owners link on a website makes them legally responsible not the stream owner, that's utter bullshit, anything that comes across the stream is in full control of the stream owner and no one else, therefore they are responsible for everything.  If 3DX Chat puts a link in their radios, they are not legally responsible for anything that comes through that radio nor is anyone else only the person who owns the stream.  As you stated you don't DJ but I do, I don't care you've been around music since you were 13, doesn't mean you know what is required to be a DJ or what is a DJ legal obligation.  I don't make any claims, I state what I know and nothing more.  If I myself or someone I know and I do state that it's someone I know, I say it because like you or anyone else on here, do know people from all aspects of life who each experience different things.  You just don't like the fact that you are being corrected on something you know nothing about as you stated yourself you don't DJ.  Guess what sweetheart, I do and yes I'm going to state what I know about it, just because you don't like, that's your problem not mine.  You've made inaccurate statements and I called you out for it, guess what put on your adult panties and deal with it, like I do.  It's ironic that you say that to me but even when I wasn't even on here to comment you seem to know it all and reply to topics countlessly and when you're proven wrong you don't like it and attack them as you've done once again to me.  Have no worries, you never have and never will mean shit to me, you're just a person on the net behind a keyboard much like many others.  The only thing I've ever said about myself is I work with computers for my job and run 2 businesses one is DJ and the others is teaching how to make graphics/textures and I'm a female, I've not ever said more than that about my experience but have said about others who I know that experience and state that as such.  So next time you want to comment actually read my reply because it clearly shows by your response you didn't.  No where did I say they needed to have expressed written consent for all music, I stated for what is needed, you know the songs for a example that a friend does or a local band, you have to have the legal expressed written consent from the entire band, if they didn't write the music then you also need the legal expressed written consent from that person.  You can try to twist and turn shit then laugh about it but as I said this isn't something you know about and are only assuming on the matter.

 

Here are a few good examples of why it is solely the stream owners responsibility. You go into your car, turn on the radio, you have Sirius/XM as well and decide to check both to see what music is on and pick a station.  Now that you've tuned it, it's known by the station that a user has tuned in and therefore the owner has a legal obligation to pay all royalties to the corresponding companies for the music they are playing not you the listener.  You're at your house, throwing a party, you put on a station on iHeart Radio to a station you like, you the listener aren't paying to listen to the music the station is.  You find a radio steam you like, post it on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, SnapChat and so on, some of your followers tune in, the person who owns the stream, sees the count of listeners, pays for songs and/or legal written expressed consent, pays the royalties not you or the other listeners because legally you have no actual control of what is coming across the stream, you can't control anything but the volume and stopping the sound that comes through on your end not anyone else but the owners.  Only they control what comes across the stream, only they control the stopping and starting of the stream itself, only they can know the count of how many listeners they have at any given moment, only they can keep track of what music has gone through the stream, not you, not your neighbor just the stream owner.  The only controlling software the listener has is the radio/receiver/player itself if they choose to turn it on or off and volume, they have no control over what is played on the stream and cannot be accountable for anything that comes across any stream as they do not have control.

 

Again I will say it, the only person/people/company that is legally responsible is the stream owner not anyone else because are the only ones that actually control the stream and are the only ones that are legally held accountable no matter where their stream is played, who plays it, where the link is, it is the sole legal responsibility of the stream owner.  No agency is going to make 3DX Chat or any other company or person(s) responsible for what the stream owner plays, they'll go after the stream owner only.  Now you can try to twist that however you want but that is exactly what would and has happened in the past.

 

I stated in this post about the legal written expressed consent.

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/8967-djing-in-public-rooms/?p=347197

 

This is one of the threads but there are others, feel free to search the forums for the rest.

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/5840-canceled-for-nowtribute-to-music-n-artists-6-months-on-3dx-party-eugene-b-day-december-2/?hl=legal

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/5840-canceled-for-nowtribute-to-music-n-artists-6-months-on-3dx-party-eugene-b-day-december-2/?p=254379My post.

[Twiggy]

Look through this forum, I even stated in a thread that Alivia started about having DJs in a room that bought all their music and show her proof they did so they could DJ and others of exactly what it takes to be legal, Chilles has said the same thing.  So don't sit here and tell me I never said anything, that is not the only time I've said it as I said it back in 2015 and several times since.  

 

I stated in this post about the legal written expressed consent.

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/8967-djing-in-public-rooms/?p=347197

 

This is one of the threads but there are others, feel free to search the forums for the rest.

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/5840-canceled-for-nowtribute-to-music-n-artists-6-months-on-3dx-party-eugene-b-day-december-2/?hl=legal

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/5840-canceled-for-nowtribute-to-music-n-artists-6-months-on-3dx-party-eugene-b-day-december-2/?p=254379My post.

 

You have never done any more than a brief description of the legal requirements anywhere, including in the links you have provided.

You have said that you need a license to broadcast and to pay royalties for the songs you play and that is all you have said other than explaining things like ownership of a CD does not give you the right to stream it.

I asked you to say how you have made sure you are legal, meaning what license you have taken and with whom, how you go about paying the royalties, what you have said does not describe that at all.

Just saying you need a license and to pay royalties is fairly common knowledge, although I agree there are some that think things like just having paid to purchase a song gives them the right to stream it over the Internet I think most people do know that royalties are meant to be paid.

So your explanation of what you need to do is minimal and can even be misleading.

It could be taken and often is thought by people that they require a broadcast license.

Some of the agencies actually have license they call a "Broadcast license" and often people mistake that license as being the license they require to stream music over the Internet.

The named broadcast license that these agencies have are for radio and TV and are not the correct license they need for streaming songs over the Internet.

So saying they need a license for broadcasting can be misleading.

You have never said what license you have, who you have it with and how you go about paying your royalties.

 

You have declared that you know exactly what you are talking about and that I do not, that you being a professional DJ and me not, makes it so I know nothing and you do.

You have discounted what I have said about having to find out about all this stuff for a website we were working on, and that I have been responsible for registering artists to these collection agencies for royalty collection.

You have very much stated that you being a professional DJ would give you more knowledge than I would are saying to be a professional DJ you have to know these things.

You have very much implied that have lied about talking with APRA and finding out what I have posted.

Yet you make statements like the one below, where you are completely wrong about something that would be very important and well known if you were in fact a professional DJ.

 

 

 

When a DJ goes to a nightclub to DJ, they sign a legal binding contract written up by a lawyer that removes the nightclub owner from any legal responsibility for music that the DJ plays as they don't provide the music only the location with which the DJ is playing in.   It is the responsibility of the DJ and I know because I've signed them and I pay for everything.  The only thing we don't have to pay for is the power that is used to run anything because that much be provided, they don't provide any equipment unless they offer it because of how they have the sound system set up that you hook into, otherwise it's up to the DJ to pay for all of that. 

 

Now I knew that was wrong and have just did a very quick search to find things to prove so.

As I have said it is the venues responsibility to ensure they are licensed and the royalties are paid, but you insist it is the responsibility of the DJ.

So I simply typed this into google "Do I need to pay royalties to be a DJ" and look at what comes up.

 

https://www.google.com.au/search?ei=oMMvXfBry_31A-DljbAO&q=Do+I+need+to+pay+royalties+to+be+aDJ&oq=Do+I+need+to+pay+royalties+to+be+aDJ&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i22i29i30.17633.30832..31453...0.0..0.286.5219.0j16j10......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0j0i131j0i22i30j33i160.6pbWBRBIgd0

 

https://improvingdj.com/do-djs-need-permission-to-play-songs/

 

So as you can clearly see you saying that the DJ has to supply the license and pay the royalties is completely wrong, something one would think a professional DJ would know.

And yes it has me very much doubting the truth behind you saying you are a professional DJ.

 

The real life comparisons you have given below have very little to do with what we are talking about here.

A better comparison would be to say a venue hosts an event where a DJ plays music, or even they just paly music from a radio station for their guests.

In that case the venue is responsible for the licensing and royalties, not the DJ and no payments made by a radio station will count towards the responsibility of the venue owner either.

If you don't believe me try googling "licensing music for my night club" or "licensing music for my shopping mall" and see what comes up.

As I have said and you have tried to say I do not know what I am talking about, it is the venues responsibility, not the DJs.

 

 

 

Here are a few good examples of why it is solely the stream owners responsibility. You go into your car, turn on the radio, you have Sirius/XM as well and decide to check both to see what music is on and pick a station.  Now that you've tuned it, it's known by the station that a user has tuned in and therefore the owner has a legal obligation to pay all royalties to the corresponding companies for the music they are playing not you the listener.  You're at your house, throwing a party, you put on a station on iHeart Radio to a station you like, you the listener aren't paying to listen to the music the station is.  You find a radio steam you like, post it on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, SnapChat and so on, some of your followers tune in, the person who owns the stream, sees the count of listeners, pays for songs and/or legal written expressed consent, pays the royalties not you or the other listeners because legally you have no actual control of what is coming across the stream, you can't control anything but the volume and stopping the sound that comes through on your end not anyone else but the owners.  Only they control what comes across the stream, only they control the stopping and starting of the stream itself, only they can know the count of how many listeners they have at any given moment, only they can keep track of what music has gone through the stream, not you, not your neighbor just the stream owner.  The only controlling software the listener has is the radio/receiver/player itself if they choose to turn it on or off and volume, they have no control over what is played on the stream and cannot be accountable for anything that comes across any stream as they do not have control.

 

 

So stop your bullshit, stop trying to convince everyone you are the only one that knows what you are talking about because you have clearly shown you are full of shit.

[Mar Mohan]

You have never done any more than a brief description of the legal requirements anywhere, including in the links you have provided.

You have said that you need a license to broadcast and to pay royalties for the songs you play and that is all you have said other than explaining things like ownership of a CD does not give you the right to stream it.

I asked you to say how you have made sure you are legal, meaning what license you have taken and with whom, how you go about paying the royalties, what you have said does not describe that at all.

Just saying you need a license and to pay royalties is fairly common knowledge, although I agree there are some that think things like just having paid to purchase a song gives them the right to stream it over the Internet I think most people do know that royalties are meant to be paid.

So your explanation of what you need to do is minimal and can even be misleading.

It could be taken and often is thought by people that they require a broadcast license.

Some of the agencies actually have license they call a "Broadcast license" and often people mistake that license as being the license they require to stream music over the Internet.

The named broadcast license that these agencies have are for radio and TV and are not the correct license they need for streaming songs over the Internet.

So saying they need a license for broadcasting can be misleading.

You have never said what license you have, who you have it with and how you go about paying your royalties.

 

You have declared that you know exactly what you are talking about and that I do not, that you being a professional DJ and me not, makes it so I know nothing and you do.

You have discounted what I have said about having to find out about all this stuff for a website we were working on, and that I have been responsible for registering artists to these collection agencies for royalty collection.

You have very much stated that you being a professional DJ would give you more knowledge than I would are saying to be a professional DJ you have to know these things.

You have very much implied that have lied about talking with APRA and finding out what I have posted.

Yet you make statements like the one below, where you are completely wrong about something that would be very important and well known if you were in fact a professional DJ.

 

 

 

 

Now I knew that was wrong and have just did a very quick search to find things to prove so.

As I have said it is the venues responsibility to ensure they are licensed and the royalties are paid, but you insist it is the responsibility of the DJ.

So I simply typed this into google "Do I need to pay royalties to be a DJ" and look at what comes up.

 

https://www.google.com.au/search?ei=oMMvXfBry_31A-DljbAO&q=Do+I+need+to+pay+royalties+to+be+aDJ&oq=Do+I+need+to+pay+royalties+to+be+aDJ&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i22i29i30.17633.30832..31453...0.0..0.286.5219.0j16j10......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0j0i131j0i22i30j33i160.6pbWBRBIgd0

 

https://improvingdj.com/do-djs-need-permission-to-play-songs/

 

So as you can clearly see you saying that the DJ has to supply the license and pay the royalties is completely wrong, something one would think a professional DJ would know.

And yes it has me very much doubting the truth behind you saying you are a professional DJ.

 

The real life comparisons you have given below have very little to do with what we are talking about here.

A better comparison would be to say a venue hosts an event where a DJ plays music, or even they just paly music from a radio station for their guests.

In that case the venue is responsible for the licensing and royalties, not the DJ and no payments made by a radio station will count towards the responsibility of the venue owner either.

If you don't believe me try googling "licensing music for my night club" or "licensing music for my shopping mall" and see what comes up.

As I have said and you have tried to say I do not know what I am talking about, it is the venues responsibility, not the DJs.

 

 

 

So stop your bullshit, stop trying to convince everyone you are the only one that knows what you are talking about because you have clearly shown you are full of shit.

You know what I am a legal DJ, I pay everything I am legally required to do and know who is actually responsible for what.  I'm even registered with my city and pay all taxes on monies I make from being a DJ.  I'm not going to sit here and keep arguing with you as you always think you fucking know it all much like you to anyone else that says something that you don't like.  I gave the basics as I'm not here to school someone on how to be a legal DJ when who the fuck here is becoming one, no one that I know of.  You can sit here and say whatever the fuck you want and guess what it goes straight back blown up your ass because you don't know shit.  Google doesn't give all the information and never will.  It gives basics much like I did.  I DJ for bars and nightclubs and know what is in the contract I and other DJs sign, as I said I'm not scanning in all the legal documents and posting them.  You say so much shit about me all the time that I'm always wrong and you do it to others as well.  By the way I don't have to show anything to anyone but the agencies that require it, so go fuck yourself with that.  I asked you to provide the legal court cases stating the website owner who posted someone else stream is legally responsible to pay not the stream owner, you failed to do that, let me guess Goggle didn't have a search for that to prove you're correct.  Everyone else is always wrong when it comes to you and you always know it all, guess what you fucking don't.  I know I'm legal when I DJ and meet all my legal obligations that I am required to meet.  Don't like that I am and I explain it as basic and I don't give a flying fuck if you like it or not.  As you stated before you don't DJ, so that's on you but don't sit here and tell others they don't know what they're talking about that do. I'm not the one trying to convince people of what I'm talking about, you seemed to be the one focused on that and giving misinformation as to who is responsible for what over your several posts that even Chilles explained is wrong.

 

So with that a big ol' kiss my ass and every other legal DJ in the world to you sweetheart.

 

How about this if anyone wishes to become a legal DJ with a full understanding of the laws with which they must abide by, contact a lawyer that specializes in it in your area.  Instead of taking this forum as be all end all, I've given basic information of some of what is required and who generally is as they can very by location and/or contract.  That is the best bet for anyone who wishes to legally DJ.

[Twiggy]

I rest my case 

[Mar Mohan]

I rest my case 

Of course you do because not only have I but Chilles stated you were incorrect.  So rest your case all you like, you clearly haven't proven me wrong.  :D

 

Remember Google isn't your friend when it comes to legal matters, seek the advice of a lawyer.  If you want to be a legal DJ go see a lawyer who specializes in it.  Depending on how you wish to DJ will cover what aspects that you are responsible for.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Mar Mohan

[Twiggy]

I didn't prove you wrong, google did, anyone that looks at what is said from any of the links that show in google will not find any expert that agrees with you, not one says it is the responsibility of the DJ, all say it is the venue owner that has the responsibility.

As knowing that would obviously be something vital to professional DJs I am sure most will feel as I do, that you being a professional DJ is a load of crap.

As that is what you use to say you know what you are talking about I am also sure a lot of people will see what you say is just made up bull shit and give you the respect you deserve.