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Gizmo

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Bam and here comes one "telling it like it is". When actually you are just spouting BS that you can't really back up. I believe you can buy mixes from a few here. Additionally, for many its entertainment, a mere hobby. The gist of the argument is that it is time for the game to step up and provide the means for DJing. I've done it in another game. I made tips, if I owned the stream it'd cost me nothing. Other clubs provided the means. And this is a free play game, no subs required to play.

 

 

If you read the thread you would see the costs involved in licensing in addition to library costs; in addition to stream costs. When Chilles maintained the costs, there was a process that maintained the legality of being able to stream. What Gizmo is asking is that all DJs who apply take on this cost. As oppose to getting and maintaining the proper licensing themselves. Looking at it from a community perspective this could cost thousands depending on the number of DJs. Whereas the game could easily implement the same system that existed and still hire DJs. However, this was just a CYA move to replace the abandoned (rightfully so since there were no checks and balances in place to maintain legality) system without having to pay. Also because they wanted to "try" to absolve themselves of any liability should music be downloaded illegally directly from the game. The vetting system is shit and completely laughable. I don't understand your point or maybe you are trolling...or campaigning for a spot. Which seems pretty ridiculous because all you gotta do is complete the third grade contract.

Not trolling or campaigning  maybe you took it wrong. What is there to campaign for?   If you mean a " DJ" spot  don't you have to fill out a form?  i haven't so my campaign wouldn't be too successful.     I was making a different point   sorry if it seemed like trolling

 

I am actually  in favor of your suggestion.   My post was a bit off topic, sort of..... :) 

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Nitro you really need to know what you are talking about before making a statement like "Bam, Nitro telling it like it is"

No one in here is saying they want to be paid for DJing, what they are saying is the devs should pay for the licensing instead of expecting the likes of Achilles to meet all those costs.

Achilles was supplying not only music for his own DJing but also all the music in all the public locations.

He not only paid for genuine copies of the music played he also paid for the license for it to be streamed and the server to do so.

3DXChat supplied none of that, only gave Achilles his sub for free.

What people are saying is that 3DXChat should supply that themsleves, or at least cover the cost of licensing and servers if someone else does it for them.

Not just look for another DJ to do the same and not pay a cent themselves.

Achilles was meeting a cost of over 300 euro a month to supply music for 3DXChat, that is a cost that Gizmo should have paid.

I can understand you saying that DJs should not expect to be paid in 3DXChat, but this is something entirely different.

I read it and understood it.    

I hope they do as you have suggested. 

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Oh Mulan I think I made a mistake on the price as I added VAT when it was already included so the cost appears to be £593.

 

What would I do if you signed the Agreement "I do not agree"? Oh easy. So assuming you actually want to be a DJ then there would (I hope) be an email trail between you and Gizmo. "Gizmo here is my signed (chortle) Agreement with all my stream details", "Gizmo really looking forward to starting" "Gizmo my stream is up and running can't wait to hear people's reaction when I play Youth Gone Wild by Skid Row ". Probably an email from Gizmo: "Thanks Shanti you have been accepted we're looking forward to your Hard House stream". That you are providing the stream knowing the terms. That you didn't say "Gizmo please stop using my stream, I signed the agreement 'I do not agree' as a joke" when you knew he was. So I'm confident that irrespective of what you sign, or even if you sign, your actions signify acceptance. I'm just a financial adviser so no idea if I'm right. Happy for a legal person to tell me I'm wrong.

 

Send it in to Gizmo signed "I do not agree" and let us know if he spots it!

 

I was going to make a joke about one thing that would invalidate it, but you'll have to pm me in game as it's a bit Joan Rivers-esque.

 

Do you really think that an email trail would stand up in court against what would likely be the top legal firm in the US saying the likes of.

 

You passed on responsibilities that you know to be your own.

You did not show any guide lines for these amateur DJs to follow to know they would be legal.

You had knowledge of a download button being supplied in a modified dll and did nothing to prevent it.

Did you make any attempt to contact the likes of ASCAP to find out what you are required to do.

 

I am not a lawyer but I think it is obvious he would be ripped apart in court.

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(Just a random found - [i want you' + 'share' and pay' Pic) 

fair.jpg

 


Nitro you really need to know what you are talking about before making a statement like "Bam, Nitro telling it like it is"
No one in here is saying they want to be paid for DJing, what they are saying is:

the devs should pay for the licensing instead of expecting the likes of Achilles to meet all those costs.

 
Achilles was supplying not only music for his own DJing but also all the music in all the public locations.
He not only paid for genuine copies of the music played he also paid for the license for it to be streamed and the server to do so.
3DXChat supplied none of that, only gave Achilles his sub for free.
 
What people are saying is that 3DXChat should supply that themsleves, or at least cover the cost of licensing and servers if someone else does it for them.
Not just look for another DJ to do the same and not pay a cent themselves.
 
Achilles was meeting a cost of over 300 euro a month to supply music for 3DXChat, that is a cost that Gizmo should have paid.
I can understand you saying that DJs should not expect to be paid in 3DXChat, but this is something entirely different.



The developers should do more to support with the licencing costs. I am not entirely blaming the devs, and even professional radio stations struggle to stay afloat with all the massive costs involved, most of which is going to the record companies pockets, not the artist. The entire music industry is broken with silly business models. But that is not going to change anytime soon.
 So, the developers could provide a shared stream with the legal licencing for public DJs like Achilles did, and the public DJs pay for the legal music.
 
On a less serious note. When I go to Sin Club now, will I just hear Volbeat - Lola Montez on repeat 24/7 as Xanar signed up?   ;)



Before this type of topic started, I had little understanding of the online DJ environment and, to tell the truth, it didn't concern me a lot as I tended to either listen to my own music or, more likely, I would be watching television in parallel and have no sound at all from 3dxchat.Thanks to topics like this, I now have a better understanding and it appears to me that the retailers of 3dxchat are effectively trying to abrogate their responsibilities by failing to provide the appropriate resources to enable the streaming that is theoretically required for their product.Like security, it is probably another nail in the game's coffin.



 

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[Good "fight", good night | Have a good week, "Word up" and stay "thirty" folks]

 

 

Word-Up-2.jpeg

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYuQWO3NsFI


getthehell570.gif

OF THIS THREAD N\o/W FOR TODAY
[Yeah, I know - bye]

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Well... It could be so easy do it very "cheap" and central with one System this means one License for 3DXChat ^^

 

Imagine there are 20 DJ's and this all have 20 separate Licenses how expensive that would be total...

And this all only because they are not ready to support her DJ's with the costs. :rolleyes:

 

And this all after this they got the most advertising and member entertaining with Music and parties...

 

If they share only 50cent of each Member could there be enough money for Licenses, Content, Server costs etc.

I could Imagine no one of the members would complain if the membership comes 50cent higher monthly if they get endless and the newest Music Songs + Legal Live DJ Support as a kind of internal 3DXChat Radio for all Public Locations.

 

Again, I don't want earn money! The work and invested time could have been free forever.

But I also do not want it to cost me a lot of money, or that I burn my money only for the benefit of the game owners pocket.

 

In the past was the DJ's very thankful to have the stream sources for free + total automatic. But this was only a Bonus of me, because more wasn't possible :rolleyes:

 

Well it's useless to discuss longer here because it's everything said...

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Oh Mulan I think I made a mistake on the price as I added VAT when it was already included so the cost appears to be £593.

 

What would I do if you signed the Agreement "I do not agree"? Oh easy. So assuming you actually want to be a DJ then there would (I hope) be an email trail between you and Gizmo. "Gizmo here is my signed (chortle) Agreement with all my stream details", "Gizmo really looking forward to starting" "Gizmo my stream is up and running can't wait to hear people's reaction when I play Youth Gone Wild by Skid Row ". Probably an email from Gizmo: "Thanks Shanti you have been accepted we're looking forward to your Hard House stream". That you are providing the stream knowing the terms. That you didn't say "Gizmo please stop using my stream, I signed the agreement 'I do not agree' as a joke" when you knew he was. So I'm confident that irrespective of what you sign, or even if you sign, your actions signify acceptance. I'm just a financial adviser so no idea if I'm right. Happy for a legal person to tell me I'm wrong.

 

Send it in to Gizmo signed "I do not agree" and let us know if he spots it!

 

I was going to make a joke about one thing that would invalidate it, but you'll have to pm me in game as it's a bit Joan Rivers-esque.

LOL. First, it goes to SGD and I would hope that as the author of the contract that they would indeed review every execution that takes place. Otherwise, they are idiots begging to be sued. If I signed it "idonotagreetothis", why would I then participate in an email exchange outside of... I send the contract, SGD notifies me of acceptance or denial? I do not have to respond to it. The rules nor the contract state that I have to email confirmation. So then if my stream is used after signing that I do not agree, I could then sue if it is indeed used. It is slippery. While we are at it, in the US, depending on the state, verbal contracts do not hold up in court as they want a signed contractual agreement. There are levels to this. I have had to amend contracts with my legal team to include state laws.

 

That alone leads me to believe, like with many executed contracts it is reviewed before filed. Not to mention, the whole reason for reviewing contracts is to avoid language being added that the initiator is unaware of. Which again, is one of many issues with this contract. When someone sends me a signed contract, I review it line by line before signing. If I see any differences in the language, I send it back to legal to review. That is the process until an agreement is reached that all parties can live with. 

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No one in here is saying they want to be paid for DJing, what they are saying is the devs should pay for the licensing instead of expecting the likes of Achilles to meet all those costs.

 

Really?  Is that what this is all about? 

 

You know, when I first joined 3DX, there were no DJs, public or otherwise. As I recall (And I would be happy to be corrected if I have any of the facts wrong.), there were no public user rooms and all the music in private user rooms and the public rooms came from publicly available streams from the RadioTunes website. At the time, I wondered to myself if Sex Devil Games had gotten permission from RadioTunes to repurpose the streams like that. But I wasn't very concerned about it, either.  

 

Anyway, the question I want to ask is this:

As I recall, there was no functionality that allowed players to DJ until after it was added per the request of those who wanted to DJ.  So, what is the rationale for now expecting Sex Devil Games to pay for the licensing?

 

 

The ability for players to stream was added at the request of the players, so they could play the music they wanted to hear in public rooms. Now, two years down the road, apparently people want Sex Devil Games to start paying for the licensing.

 

Well, why wasn't this issue resolved before people agreed to DJ? And, if people agreed to DJ at their own expense before, why are they now saying that SDG should start paying? Did SDG previously promise to start paying at some point in the future?

 

It seems to me that a lot of different people are bringing a lot of different assumptions to this discussion. And since new players are joining all the time, maybe someone would explain for those of us who don't know the backstory just why this issue wasn't resolved before players were allowed to DJ.

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Really?  Is that what this is all about? 

 

You know, when I first joined 3DX, there were no DJs, public or otherwise. As I recall (And I would be happy to be corrected if I have any of the facts wrong.), there were no public user rooms and all the music in private user rooms and the public rooms came from publicly available streams from the RadioTunes website. At the time, I wondered to myself if Sex Devil Games had gotten permission from RadioTunes to repurpose the streams like that. But I wasn't very concerned about it, either.  

 

Anyway, the question I want to ask is this:

As I recall, there was no functionality that allowed players to DJ until after it was added per the request of those who wanted to DJ.  So, what is the rationale for now expecting Sex Devil Games to pay for the licensing?

 

 

The ability for players to stream was added at the request of the players, so they could play the music they wanted to hear in public rooms. Now, two years down the road, apparently people want Sex Devil Games to start paying for the licensing.

 

Well, why wasn't this issue resolved before people agreed to DJ? And, if people agreed to DJ at their own expense before, why are they now saying that SDG should start paying? Did SDG previously promise to start paying at some point in the future?

 

It seems to me that a lot of different people are bringing a lot of different assumptions to this discussion. And since new players are joining all the time, maybe someone would explain for those of us who don't know the backstory just why this issue wasn't resolved before players were allowed to DJ.

Sage, have you seen the complaints about the existing music streams? The ads, etc. etc. You can't very well judge based on what it was in the olden days as with time there is evolution. We wouldn't have seen numerous threads complaining about music if it wasn't a relevant part of the game. That said, I cannot speak to how it began nor the circumstances behind it, I wasn't here yet. However, I have seen the public locations grow in population when we had events/ One of my own was a big one in the beginning and it only got bigger from there and continued to expand. So yeah, it works and obviously, SGD knows that. Now let's think about business.... 

 

I am an author who writes on Wattpad or another revenue generating site. I do it for love of the art... However, they make money from my art. I want to either be compensated or in this case.... If it costs me 10 dollars to upload a chapter and I don't want to let down my fans... I continue. At the very least I expect to be able to upload a chapter for free.

 

Edited to add that the game advertises these events. Not just within the game but everywhere.

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Really?  Is that what this is all about? 

 

You know, when I first joined 3DX, there were no DJs, public or otherwise. As I recall (And I would be happy to be corrected if I have any of the facts wrong.), there were no public user rooms and all the music in private user rooms and the public rooms came from publicly available streams from the RadioTunes website. At the time, I wondered to myself if Sex Devil Games had gotten permission from RadioTunes to repurpose the streams like that. But I wasn't very concerned about it, either.  

 

Anyway, the question I want to ask is this:

As I recall, there was no functionality that allowed players to DJ until after it was added per the request of those who wanted to DJ.  So, what is the rationale for now expecting Sex Devil Games to pay for the licensing?

 

 

The ability for players to stream was added at the request of the players, so they could play the music they wanted to hear in public rooms. Now, two years down the road, apparently people want Sex Devil Games to start paying for the licensing.

 

Well, why wasn't this issue resolved before people agreed to DJ? And, if people agreed to DJ at their own expense before, why are they now saying that SDG should start paying? Did SDG previously promise to start paying at some point in the future?

 

It seems to me that a lot of different people are bringing a lot of different assumptions to this discussion. And since new players are joining all the time, maybe someone would explain for those of us who don't know the backstory just why this issue wasn't resolved before players were allowed to DJ.

 

Sage, I think you make a valid point,.

Can anyone confirm how Dj in public rooms came about?

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DJing in public rooms came about when the new radio system was put forth a while ago. It allowed for you to enter a personal stream but I do not believe that was the point that Stoner was making

 

Actually, that is EXACTLY the point I was making.

 

That feature was added because players asked for it to be added. So, I will restate my question: Since the ability to stream was added at the request of the players, why do some players think that SDG should be paying the licensing fees?

 

It is a simple and honest question. I don't know the backstory. A lot of other people don't know it either. So, what is it?

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Actually, that is EXACTLY the point I was making.

Not really as you addressed DJing in public spaces, I was speaking to user rooms which happened much later. I realize I said public when I mean user but you get the gist. I have amended.

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Actually, that is EXACTLY the point I was making.

 

That feature was added because players asked for it to be added. So, I will restate my question: Since the ability to stream was added at the request of the players, why do some players think that SDG should be paying the licensing fees?

 

It is a simple and honest question. I don't know the backstory. A lot of other people don't know it either. So, what is it?

I see that you edited.... Gizmo clearly asked for DJs in public locations. Not user rooms. Does that answer your question? 

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I see that you edited.... Gizmo clearly asked for DJs in public locations. Not user rooms. Does that answer your question? 

 

No, not at all. Maybe you should stop trying, since you are clearly evading the point I would like to address. 

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No, not at all. Maybe you should stop trying, since you are clearly evading the point I would like to address. 

Where is the evasion Sage? I clearly pointed to a previous post that explained it. Don't be obtuse. You need to come better than that.

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Just wondering  what all the other internet sites that allow you to " guest" DJ online do for the liability issue?  Does anyone here know? 

 

 

FROM another site's terms of service below:    

 

 

You further understand and agree that all information, data, text, software, music, sound, photographs, graphics, video, messages or other material ("Content") is provided by, and the responsibility of the person that provided that Content and that  XXXXX  is not responsible for such Content. XXXXXX does not administer Commercial Rooms or other rooms and is not responsible for the content of Commercial or other rooms, unless specifically denoted. Inclusion of a chat room, User Submission (as defined below) or other Content on the XXXXXXX home page, a landing page, or any other page does not constitute an endorsement by XXXXXXX or indicate that the Content has been reviewed or approved by XXXXXXX, and XXXXXX expressly disclaims responsibility for same. XXXXXXX expresses no views as to the content of any room and is not responsible for any activities taking place therein. To the extent that you participate in any activity on XXXXXXX, you do so at your own risk.

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I will not be speaking of what's going on in user rooms, only the main locations. Cause nobody cares what happens in user rooms.

 

Dj'ing on public maps, existed very early on, when the game mods where still there, with one person cherry picking who or what not could play. Which was most likely some limited ressource stream server, and was probably far from meeting any proper legalities.

 

Current system is external to 3DXchat, respecting all legal aspects, or trying to at best. System fully funded by Achilles, system that wanted to expand the possibility for more people to be able to DJ in public locations., and for the community to come together. Many "official djs" for public maps have also contributed by providing songs, they paid for, to fill up the server. This system is also exclusively used by 3dxchat, whose pockets are the only ones benefitting from it.

 

Remember inbetween, that RadioTunes pulled the plugged on its licensing for public use. Ever since, all public maps, wardrobe, have had carefully created playlists fitting each locations, and with songs given by those djs for the community. Last year same time, the estimation for songs only was around 3k €, so it has surely grown since. And playlists without advertisings !

 

Now that is in jeopardy because the game doesn't protect that system, from the upcoming in-built download option. It's then also their right to pull it out.

 

Nobody can deny that public location entertainment has given the game a great boost, through music and public events. Everyone can look up how the events in game have fllourished on public locations from the moment Achilles took over, and the moment members were even allowed to organize events.

 

Same free service, that has been repeatedly bashed on by the community.

 

Yes nobody asked those djs to provide it, but considering 3Dx benefits from it, they should try and protect that service, or be met with complaints about ads, bad music... All that taken into consideration, it's only fair for 3Dx to cover those server costs from there on, if they want proper service.

 

So just like nobody asked those djs to provide anything, nobody is forcing 3Dx to do anything in the end. It remains their choice.

 

 

They just have to face the music for it :P

 

 

 

On a side note :

 

Will you cut the bullshit? Why should SDG pay for licensing? If you can't answer that simple question, STFU.

 

Is this a demonstration of how to discuss an issue intelligently ? I recall that aspect being important to you.

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Guest Twiggy

Sage you can go back a long way and find places in this forum where I have said SGD should pay for the licensing for music in this game.

You will find where I have questioned who is paying for the licenses and when Achilles has said he is, I have said that Gizmo should be the one paying.

When I 1st started in this game the music in public places was supplied by a service which I forget the name of, but that service suddenly was not available.

Very likely and maybe someone can confirm it, was not available because they were done for being not licensed.

From memory Achilles and Ash got involved in putting a server together and supplying that music to public areas and some new stations were added to the selection list in our rooms, voluntary maybe, or maybe Gizmo asked for their help.

At that time I can also remember the licensing being talked about and Achilles saying something to the effect he is happy to cover it for now.

I can remember questioning if he had obtained the correct licensing and saying then again that he should not be the one paying for it.

 

But forget about all that, do you really think that the music in public places in 3DXChat should be supplied by and the licensing for that music be paid by players in the game.

There is a huge question over the legalities in how Gizmo is going about it now, and if you want my opinion it is way off being legal.

 

Achilles supplied his help freely for so long, under a lot of opposition, some of that were people saying players should not be in charge of that and it should be SGD.

Recent events, namely the download button called for SGD to support him, and he didn't get that support.

He withdrew his services and the game was left in a mess as far as music in public places is concerned.

Now SGD is going about replacing it in a real fucked up way, avoiding their responsibilities and trying to pass them off on players.

Not only is it wrong for him to do that but it also means we, the player base will not get effective and properly established music in public areas.

Also a big question mark will remain over the legalities of it.

 

In all honesty Sage, I don't see the point of your argument.

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Guest Twiggy

 

 

Is this a demonstration of how to discuss an issue intelligently ? I recall that aspect being important to you.

 

really good point, I recall that to.

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Oh and to answer your question, "why should SDG pay for the licensing"

hmm, I would think that would be obvious but I will answer it as you seem lately to be having trouble finding the obvious.

The music in public locations is a vital part of this game.

SDG are the ones that get paid by the player base to supply what is in the game, no one else.

It is their responsibility to provide it legally.

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Guest Mulan

Let's take the example of a bar. Most bars have background music IRL, due to atmosphere. Who foots the cost for that? The bar owner. Even if you have a jukebox for customers to pay for songs they would like playing, the bar owner still pays the licensing costs.

 

I know 3DX is advertised as a sex game, but it is obvious that music is a very important part of 3DX otherwise this thread wouldn't have started in the first place. If SDG are serious they will provide the licensing and stop expecting its users to keep this game interesting. Start helping out the users who give people a reason to keep paying their sub.

 

I hope that answers your question Sage.

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I just want to add something. There would be a very easy fix to all this. (but you know what they say about easy ways out, anyway)

 

For the owners to say, "this is a sex game, nothing more, we don't and will not provide music for public locations, deal with it."

Then whole discussion is closed, it's their choice, we just have to accept it. All complaints are then easily rebuffed. Just accept the no music, or potentially some ad filled generic radios.

 

But you can't keep wanting to get benefits from the features without properly investing in it, under some blanketed pretended protections, that actually protect no one.

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Yes nobody asked those djs to provide it, but considering 3Dx benefits from it, they should try and protect that service, or be met with complaints about ads, bad music... All that taken into consideration, it's only fair for 3Dx to cover those server costs from there on, if they want proper service.

 

First of all, thank you for providing your version of the background. My memory of some of the things that happened is quite different from yours, but that doesn't mean that I take issue with your version of the facts that you presented. 

 

As I recall there were several very popular events that had DJs even before Achilles got involved, and that his major involvement came about after Bran and the other in-game Mods quit.  Is my memory faulty in that respect?

 

In any case, one thing that I will dispute is the paragraph that is quoted above. You say that 3DX benefits from DJ's providing music. OK, fine. But that in and of itself does not convince me that 3DX has an obligation to pay for licensing for all DJ's who provide music in public maps.

 

Simply put, AS I REMEMBER IT, the players asked for the ability to DJ in public maps. SDG added that functionality to the game that the request of the players. But adding that functionality for the players to use does not necessarily mean that SDG accepted the obligation to pay for licensing. In fact, since the DJ's agreed to bear the cost of licensing from the very beginning, it might be construed that the DJ's absolved SDG of any obligation to pay for licensing. That is why I asked the questions that are in my original post today.

 

Did SDG at any point ever promise to pay for licensing?  Why wasn't this issue resolved before people agreed to DJ? And, if people agreed to DJ at their own expense previously, why are they now saying that SDG should start paying? These questions have yet to be discussed sufficiently. 

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As a commercial site, the fee are not the same and there are royalties to pay. 

 

The owners of the site should pay for streaming and royalties.(as in a shop) for public location. If there is DJ (a player). It is a kind of contract, just like when you organize an event. You will never pay royalties. The DJ pays and you pay the DJ.

Players should pay for streaming in their location...

 

Alternative: free content. But I am not sure that people would agree with this. 

 

The other sex games that I have played have no music because of this point: Fees and royalties cost a lot.

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