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DJing in public places... Rules make no sense


JessicaX

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I thought a bit before making this post because i'm sure after this information is out, this post will either be quickly deleted or locked. There's also a good chance it will upset a lot of people. I want to explain to everyone about a situation that happened over the weekend.

 

So as many are aware, SINsations crew hosted a party where we had asked Achilles to also come and take part and he accepted. Party was a great success and we all had a lot of fun. But, in the midst of the fun in group chat, someone asked me how I record my mixes. After I explained to them, Achilles quickly left GC and them PMd me about how that was illegal. Of course he was right, it is technically illegal to record mixes and redistribute them. Except for the few situations and cases such as what is set up through Beatport and such, it goes against copyright for ANYONE to make a copy and distribute this music to anyone else. But, in the case of Mixcloud, while listening to a mix, they give listeners the option to purchase the track that is playing so in way, this is free advertising for these artists and artists can have this music taken down at any time if they so please. 

 

Well after i received the PM, my 1st thought was... ok... technically it is against copyright, but last I checked, what I do on my own PC is MY business and no one else's. How should my private actions on my PC have anything to do with rules here for streaming and/or a moderator telling me how they feel about it? The logical answer is that it doesn't. The 2 are not and should not be connected in any way.  After explaining this to him, his immediate response was that public DJs are no longer allowed to use the "Content Unlimited" subscription service built within Virtual DJ 8. This is a service very similar to itunes, rhapsody, spotify, etc... For a monthly fee, you can search nearly any track available and play that track only in VDJ as long as your subscription is active. This service has been used by a number of public DJs because it's a much cheaper option to get the tracks you want and also allows us to take requests which other players love.

 

This is off the VDJ website:

 

F7fHdRS.png

 

 

Ok, so what's the problem with the legality of these files? Well there isn't one. The issue was that I record mixes and upload them to Mixcloud and it appears that is looked down upon by some people. He threatened to take away my access because of the recording issue. That makes no sense to me because I wasn't aware that 3DX or anyone else could monitor my private actions and what I do my own PC. Well, instead, he just made it a new rule rule that Content Unlimited was no longer a legit source of legal music to play in 3DX public locations. When I did my initial test spin, Achilles asked me where I got my music from, and I showed him my VDJ licence and proof of my Content Unlimited subscription. I am not going to name names, but there are currently 5 active public DJs that use this service, and now these Djs will either have to purchase all of their tracks individually, or you will not be hearing them stream in public again. 

In this day and age, music subscription services for DJs make a lot more sense than purchasing tracks 1 by 1. In any case, this is his rules so we must respect them. The question is: Why were these rules were changed? Simply because I record a mix and he doesn't like that idea? Again, legal or not, what I do in private on my PC is not anyone's business but my own. I also think it's going a bit far to make decisions and change things based on what others do in private on their own PC. When I streamed in public I always followed the rules and never did anything against copyright, but now because I do something that Achilles disagrees with, he changes the rules and makes it harder for active DJs to entertain the public. It take 5 minutes of research to find all the information and proof needed to understand that the Content Unlimited service built within VDJ is a legit and legal source of music. Its no different than other subscription services like iTunes, Spotify, Rhapsody, Google, etc.

 

If you have hopes of becoming a public DJ, i hope you have lots of money because you are going to need it. Achilles has changed the rules so that all music must be purchased on a track by track basis. Because in his opinion, if you don't do this, you are not supporting the artists. With all of the other costs involved with being a DJ, this is a huge slap in the face and actually quite a stupid move. Public DJs do this for the love of music and for the love of entertaining people. 3DX has effectively become a platform where DJs pay their own money to provide a free service to people, and that was ok when the costs were minimal, but now it's at a level where I and many others will not be able to maintain. 

Like I mentioned before, 3DX will be losing 5 of their most active DJs, so those of you that have been waiting to become public DJs, now is a great time to get in cause there's only a few people left, so I'm sure Achilles will be eager to add more. Just make sure you have your money ready, because you are certainly going to need it. And one last thing... don't record your mixes, because if you do, whatever music platform you use will also be taken away and be deemed illegal.

 

In closing, I posted a screenshot of the VDJ Content Unlimited subscription service directly from their website. This service is built within VDJ and is a legit and legal source of music. These rules and the iron fist that change things at will do nothing but drive more people from this community, myself included. 

I wish you all a fantastic evening

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Sorry again but you do the same as ripping of YouTube content, that's against the copyrights...
Sure for yourself you can do what you want, I don't care but I care so much if you use this stuff on the public streams.
 
With use of the streams you did agree with the new Rules!
Alone this is reason enough for disqualify you for ever but nope, I gave you a second chance and said "No CU Content again"...
 
The CU content falls under the point unclear origin because there are a lot of Video Stuff inside and Video stuff has noting lost on a MUSIC Server.
It's also not possible to check each month again the CU Licenses of everyone and about this are the points there.
 

  • You agree to use only legit Music content from official Music Shops like iTunes, Google, Beatport, Amazon without exception
  • No illegal software used for streaming
  • No YouTube ripped songs or mixes of other DJs
  • No illegally downloaded music

This simple rules are Fair and possible for each DJ :)

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Sorry again but you do the same as ripping of YouTube content, that's against the copyrights...

Sure for yourself you can do what you want, I don't care but I care so much if you use this stuff on the public streams.

 

With use of the streams you did agree with the new Rules!

Alone this is reason enough for disqualify you for ever but nope, I gave you a second chance and said "No CU Content again"...

 

The CU content falls under the point unclear origin because there are a lot of Video Stuff inside and Video stuff has noting lost on a MUSIC Server.

It's also not possible to check each month again the CU Licenses of everyone and about this are the points there.

 

This simple rules are Fair and possible for each DJ :)

 

Again, if you actually did research.. there isnt a SINGLE file on content unlimited service that rips anything from a video or anything like youtube. Some of the content from NETSEARCH might be questionable, but you again are confusing the 2. Just 5 minutes of research shows that your statement is false. If you would like, i can also show you posts from VDJ devs that wil also prove that your statement is wrong.

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Ok by all means tell me to mind my own business but I have some experience of copyright law (in the UK). Reading the screenshot pertaining to ContentUnlimited it seems to suggest two key things: 'Play any song WITHOUT LIMITS' (The last two words being legally significant) and 'you will be able to face almost any request by your CUSTOMERS'.

 

Legally-speaking that seems to suggest music from this source is legally safe to use, especially as it is content meant for DJs who, by definition, play music in a public setting. Am I misreading things here?

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Sorry again but you do the same as ripping of YouTube content, that's against the copyrights...

Sure for yourself you can do what you want, I don't care but I care so much if you use this stuff on the public streams.

 

With use of the streams you did agree with the new Rules!

Alone this is reason enough for disqualify you for ever but nope, I gave you a second chance and said "No CU Content again"...

 

The CU content falls under the point unclear origin because there are a lot of Video Stuff inside and Video stuff has noting lost on a MUSIC Server.

It's also not possible to check each month again the CU Licenses of everyone and about this are the points there.

 

This simple rules are Fair and possible for each DJ :)

 

 

I think its also safe to assume that VDJ is not making money from offering youtube ripped audio. :)

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In defense of Achilles, his ass is the one on the line. rules are much more strict where he lives and if shit hits the fan, its ultimately his ass that is hung out to dry.. If you dj here you follow his rules. Its not like this is a 3dx thing, its a Achilles thing. Nobody is forcing anyone to dj. There are plenty of rules that we have here that i think are beyond stupid however i still try to follow them because the people who run the place have the right to make them. if i dont like it, i leave.

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In defense of Achilles, his ass is the one on the line. rules are much more strict where he lives and if shit hits the fan, its ultimately his ass that is hung out to dry.. If you dj here you follow his rules. Its not like this is a 3dx thing, its a Achilles thing. Nobody is forcing anyone to dj. There are plenty of rules that we have here that i think are beyond stupid however i still try to follow them because the people who run the place have the right to make them. if i dont like it, i leave.

 

Had you read what I posted you would have seen the part that I said "they are his rules and we must follow them" so your post is a bit redundant but noted. This this topic is more about the legality of said music source in question, in which case I showed that these rules make no sense. You can "feel" anyway you want about something, but when someone shows you proof that you are incorrect, most people reconsider. You may hate the fact that grass is green, but the nice thing about facts are that they do not need your acceptance to be facts.

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well lets be honest here , you posted looking for sympathy. you also posted in a open forum so along with that you are going to get comments from people that dont agree. i could care less if you like them or not. Just as you have the right to post anything you want within the framework of the rules, I do also. Thanks for playing ;)

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Who needs public "DJ"'s when you can stream music in your own room anyway  :huh:

you are correct although the partys would be pretty bland without djs i would think. the public ones

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well lets be honest here , you posted looking for sympathy. you also posted in a open forum so along with that you are going to get comments from people that dont agree. i could care less if you like them or not. Just as you have the right to post anything you want within the framework of the rules, I do also. Thanks for playing ;)

 

My post is not looking for sympathy. Again, it helps to READ what people post before replying.

 

Please don't stray from the topic. This topic is about the Legality of Content Unlimited, not about your personal vendetta against me. You can make a new post for that. Thanks :)

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My post is not looking for sympathy. Again, it helps to READ what people post before replying.

 

Please don't stray from the topic. This topic is about the Legality of Content Unlimited, not about your personal vendetta against me. You can make a new post for that. Thanks :)

I have no vendetta against anyone. you are just upset that someone defended him but trust me, i wont be the only one by the end of the day.  yvw

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I have no vendetta against anyone. you are just upset that someone defended him but trust me, i wont be the only one by the end of the day.  yvw

 

Rob your inability to comprehend what people say to you is shocking. I highly suggest that you please READ everything I said and also what I replied to you. I never once indicated that I was upset at you or anyone else. 

 

Now, can we PLEASE get back on topic? thanks :)

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Ok by all means tell me to mind my own business but I have some experience of copyright law (in the UK). Reading the screenshot pertaining to ContentUnlimited it seems to suggest two key things: 'Play any song WITHOUT LIMITS' (The last two words being legally significant) and 'you will be able to face almost any request by your CUSTOMERS'.

 

Legally-speaking that seems to suggest music from this source is legally safe to use, especially as it is content meant for DJs who, by definition, play music in a public setting. Am I misreading things here?

 

Sure I agree :) But for us is not possible to check this License each month... And it's technical and about the VirtualDJ terms forbidden and again the copyrights to record and save this content outside of VirtualDJ :)

This Content are only borred for use it alone in VirtualDJ for play, stream...

 

Also have this content the same meta parts as ripped YouTube stuff and this make it impossible to difference.

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Sure I agree :) But for us is not possible to check this License each month... And it's technical and about the VirtualDJ terms forbidden and again the copyrights to record and save this content outside of VirtualDJ :)

This Content are only borred for use it alone in VirtualDJ for play, stream...

 

Also have this content the same meta parts as ripped YouTube stuff and this make it impossible to difference.

that was pretty clear and concise

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Sure I agree :) But for us is not possible to check this License each month... And it's technical and about the VirtualDJ terms forbidden and again the copyrights to record and save this content outside of VirtualDJ :)

This Content are only borred for use it alone in VirtualDJ for play, stream...

 

Also have this content the same meta parts as ripped YouTube stuff and this make it impossible to difference.

Thanks for that Achilles. A sensible contribution to the discussion. I understand your legal dilemma better :)

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Sure I agree :) But for us is not possible to check this License each month... And it's technical and about the VirtualDJ terms forbidden and again the copyrights to record and save this content outside of VirtualDJ :)

This Content are only borred for use it alone in VirtualDJ for play, stream...

 

#1.. its illegal for ANYONE to record and redistribute mixes except in cases of Beatport and similar instances. Everyone that uploads to Mixcloud is technically doing it illegally. 

 

#2.. This has NOTHING to do with the legality of these files being streamed in public. As long as people are following the rules when streaming, you or 3dx cannot make rules as to what people do privately on their PC. Most DJs here upload to Mixcloud. I surely hope you are looking down upon them as well because ALL of it is technically illegal. Even your own Beatport created mixes are illegal to distribute outside of that medium. Again.. a little research will shed some light on this topic.

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Sure I agree :) But for us is not possible to check this License each month... And it's technical and about the VirtualDJ terms forbidden and again the copyrights to record and save this content outside of VirtualDJ :)

This Content are only borred for use it alone in VirtualDJ for play, stream...

 

Also have this content the same meta parts as ripped YouTube stuff and this make it impossible to difference.

 

Terms in google, itunes, and amazon forbid recording copyrighted music as well. Just because you have a monthly sub with these platforms doesn't give you the right to stream publicly. That said, all three of these platforms need to be removed as well.

 

You can enforce:

- Making sure your DJs play copyrighted music with proper licensing.

- Which CU already does, its on their website. You can call them and they will send the proper licensing docs too.

 

You cannot enforce:

- What they do with the music beyond streaming. If they are recording for their own purpose it is their choice, you have NO RIGHT to enforce they cannot do that. What they do on their PC is their business. You are more than welcome to file a DCMA complaint against them.

 

 

that was pretty clear and concise

 

It was, but it makes no sense. His decision is half-assed, because he doesn't understand the technology behind mp3 tagging. The sites that let you convert youtube videos into mp3, use a service that can identify songs and apply meta tags. Just because CU has the same meta data doesn't mean it is ripped off youtube. CU is a *legally verified* music provider for DJs that want to stream publicly.

 

 

 

Edit:

Achilles removed CU as a source of legal music provider in retaliation to prevent JessicaX from uploading her streams to Mixcloud. What he did was wrong, and CU should be restored as a source for getting music for public streaming.

 

Edit 2:

Note that both CU and Mixcloud has a blanket license that pay fees to the artists and music producers. Everything that is being done here is legal.

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Does the CU license transfer from the PC of the person who holds that license to the server which Achilles uses to stream into the game? Or is that license specific to its owner and disqualifies once a mix is resident on another computer?

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Q8TBmJ2.png

 

This taken directly from the RIAA website located at: https://www.riaa.com/resources-learning/about-piracy/

 

The last sentence is very telling: "Regardless of the format at issue, the same basic principle applies: music sound recordings may not be copied or distributed without the permission of the owner."

 

Everyone that has an active Mixcloud account is infringing against copyrights. The fact that I do it in a different way is irrelevant. The laws seem pretty clear to me. If you are going to look down on me for it, you need to be looking down on EVERYONE that records mixes and uploads to Mixcloud. 

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There is content unlimited songs that fall within your subscription. These are safe. Net search and Genius DJ are sketchy but you know the difference. VJD does not allow for the recording of CU songs but there are ways around that. I have a lot library but content unlimited was good for the newest and requested songs played live. It is also a recurring subscription service so maybe the proof is in having the DJ submit proof monthly that they are still covered. I dunno. People try but always something new. Seems to be a lot of headache. Think I will just spin in my room.

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Does the CU license transfer from the PC of the person who holds that license to the server which Achilles uses to stream into the game? Or is that license specific to its owner and disqualifies once a mix is resident on another computer?

 

4duBm5S.png

 

Technically its a bit of a grey area whether or not it's legal to stream any of these sources or play in a public setting, even ones that were purchased or ripped from CDs. As a rule of thumb, if there isn't money being made from that act, no one will say say a thing. But the idea that subscription based services are not as legal as a purchased track is a very outdated and illogical assumption.

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Who needs public "DJ"'s when you can stream music in your own room anyway  :huh:

 

Maybe the best solution :)

Because for me personal brought this always more problems and Dramas, Complaining etc as positive effects.

 

 

Oh and Content Unlimited had in the past enough problems with Copyrights and used YouTube stuff origin ;)

My opinion?: Support for Art and Artist looks in my eyes a little bit other... A CU License for 9.99$/month and the DJ use maybe 249 songs each month so is this 4cent support for each song ^^ :lol: Question how much of this 4cent get the Artist?  :huh:

 

But again, it's not possible to check of all DJ's each month a License like this and also is it not possible to difference this stuff with illegal stuff about the Metadata!

And I've really no mood to discuss about streaming Services... What's next, the DJ's want stream Spotify?  :huh:

 

It's Fair and for each DJ possible to use his own legal library :)

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Oh and Content Unlimited had in the past enough problems with Copyrights and used YouTube stuff origin ;)

 

 

Content Unlimited monitors and fixes their copyright issues, if you read the post that you linked. It is clear they took actions and are very transparent about it.

 

 

My opinion?: Support for Art and Artist looks in my eyes a little bit other... A CU License for 9.99$/month and the DJ use maybe 249 songs each month so is this 4cent support for each song ^^  :lol: Question how much of this 4cent get the Artist?   :huh:

 

It is a subscription service. If 100 people sign up for 9.99/month and use 249 songs, the artists get $4/song. However, its not that simple. CU doesn't provide money to artists from the subscriptions, artists and producers are priced on a flat rate. They make a deal with production companies, like 10% of the sales for for artist payment.

 

 

But again, it's not possible to check of all DJ's each month a License like this and also is it not possible to difference this stuff with illegal stuff about the Metadata!

And I've really no mood to discuss about streaming Services... What's next, the DJ's want stream Spotify?   :huh:

 

It's Fair and for each DJ possible to use his own legal library  :)

 
Stop worrying about the metadata, anyone can fake the metadata. I can rip songs with torrents with proper metadata, you won't even know it. You are micromanaging your DJs, that is why these issues arise. Your DJs don't make any money for the effort they put in streaming in 3dx. They have no personal advantage in being sneaky. They do it because it is fun and want to give 3dx users a good time. Trust your DJs and verify that the source is legal. It is clear that CU is legal. 
 
Re: Spotify, you can stream Spotify publicly if you are a business: https://www.soundtrackyourbrand.com/
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