Xaufin Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 RE: Mocap. Motion capture is a great way to get 80% of the animation data you need, but that data still has to be fine-tuned for animations. Even the pre-made dance animations in 3DX, many of which are just downloaded from Mixamo/etc and put into 3DX, have to be modified to fit 3DX's rigs better and other small fixes. The original human rig might have had forearms that were 0.4 meters but 3DX's are 0.35, for example. So even adding free stuff takes work. An example would be in that pole dance video above, where at some points her hands are not correctly aligned with the pole. That last 20% of polish and finishing touches is necessary whether by mocap or custom keyframe animations. Diana Prince, JeanetteVoerman and Angelqueen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana Prince Posted April 16, 2021 Author Share Posted April 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, Xaufin said: RE: Mocap. Motion capture is a great way to get 80% of the animation data you need, but that data still has to be fine-tuned for animations. Even the pre-made dance animations in 3DX, many of which are just downloaded from Mixamo/etc and put into 3DX, have to be modified to fit 3DX's rigs better and other small fixes. The original human rig might have had forearms that were 0.4 meters but 3DX's are 0.35, for example. So even adding free stuff takes work. An example would be in that pole dance video above, where at some points her hands are not correctly aligned with the pole. That last 20% of polish and finishing touches is necessary whether by mocap or custom keyframe animations. Totally agree with you, it's not simply copy & paste. The question is: how perfect does it have to be? I never realised the flaws with the pole dance But another problem with the poses we could get, when we get more customizability for our avi's. When you make your avi taller or smaller, thinner or thicker, the poses wouldn't fit sometimes anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaufin Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Yeah, nipple placement is an interesting problem that makes certain foreplay poses seemingly impossible. A breast sucking animation that works fine on small breasts would end up swallowing the partner's entire head if the breasts were max size. I've mentioned before this should be solvable with inverse kinematic (IK) animation, where one avatar's mouth is navigating by code to a point on the other avatar instead of using preset keyframe positions. The mythical "pose editor" might be able to solve this too, where players could trade poses or pose files like "breastplay_small", "breastplay_medium", etc. that would manually account for these differences. Still wouldn't work if "_medium" was for a 50% breast and their partner had 48% breasts, but it's a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, Xaufin said: Yeah, nipple placement is an interesting problem that makes certain foreplay poses seemingly impossible. A breast sucking animation that works fine on small breasts would end up swallowing the partner's entire head if the breasts were max size. I've mentioned before this should be solvable with inverse kinematic (IK) animation, where one avatar's mouth is navigating by code to a point on the other avatar instead of using preset keyframe positions. The mythical "pose editor" might be able to solve this too, where players could trade poses or pose files like "breastplay_small", "breastplay_medium", etc. that would manually account for these differences. Still wouldn't work if "_medium" was for a 50% breast and their partner had 48% breasts, but it's a start. Or perhaps they could use the technique another world uses where no matter the size it defaults to a predetermined size when the animation runs. This technique is also used for avi heights. No matter the avi size.. mini to max, when two avi's interact they default to a common size. Small grows, extra large shrinks. Breast Medium for example, or Height medium for example as default could solve this. However, what you speak of sounds far better if possible. Edited April 16, 2021 by THX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niblette Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Anaganda, JeanetteVoerman, xLilBabyGirlx and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenC Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 19 hours ago, Xaufin said: Yeah, nipple placement is an interesting problem that makes certain foreplay poses seemingly impossible. A breast sucking animation that works fine on small breasts would end up swallowing the partner's entire head if the breasts were max size. I've mentioned before this should be solvable with inverse kinematic (IK) animation, where one avatar's mouth is navigating by code to a point on the other avatar instead of using preset keyframe positions. The mythical "pose editor" might be able to solve this too, where players could trade poses or pose files like "breastplay_small", "breastplay_medium", etc. that would manually account for these differences. Still wouldn't work if "_medium" was for a 50% breast and their partner had 48% breasts, but it's a start. There's far too many variables for IK or anything like that to be a realistic option here. The pose editor as you mention is what would take 3dx to the next level for interactivity between characters. If the current character editor had values assigned to the sliders(which is an easy addition) and you could use the models you assign to the animator, then you could make perfect fitting animations for all sizes. User says my char is xx xx xx xx xx xx dimensions, can you make/adjust this pose for them, because if you've already made the animation then it would be a case of adjusting it to suit the different hip/breast etc sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana Prince Posted April 17, 2021 Author Share Posted April 17, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Niblette said: Oh, wow, that looks VERY cool! Did you release it already? Edited April 17, 2021 by Diana Prince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niblette Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 Not yet I haven't had a lot of time to work on it lately, but I should get it out within a week or two it just needs some testing and a bit of polishing. It should really make making good quality logos and text in 3DX easy though. Angelqueen, JenC, uncle and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaufin Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 On 4/16/2021 at 8:00 PM, JenC said: There's far too many variables for IK or anything like that to be a realistic option here. The pose editor as you mention is what would take 3dx to the next level for interactivity between characters. If the current character editor had values assigned to the sliders(which is an easy addition) and you could use the models you assign to the animator, then you could make perfect fitting animations for all sizes. User says my char is xx xx xx xx xx xx dimensions, can you make/adjust this pose for them, because if you've already made the animation then it would be a case of adjusting it to suit the different hip/breast etc sizes. Nothing is preventing IK. And it's the only way to make different sizes work. Otherwise, with a slider that ranges from 0.0 to 1.0, they would have to hand animate every relevant pose to suit 100 different settings (0.00, 0.01, 0.02...) If the slider had only 3 states (small, medium, large), then they'd only have to hand animate 3 times for every relevant pose. But that's still more work than just implementing IK. If the pose editor could accommodate those slider values, it would still do so with IK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana Prince Posted April 18, 2021 Author Share Posted April 18, 2021 16 hours ago, Niblette said: Not yet I haven't had a lot of time to work on it lately, but I should get it out within a week or two it just needs some testing and a bit of polishing. It should really make making good quality logos and text in 3DX easy though. That would be AMAZING! If you need help with testing, just shoot me a message Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ JAYDEN Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 I still think is a prank or he is being fr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana Prince Posted April 18, 2021 Author Share Posted April 18, 2021 1 minute ago, DJ KACEY said: I still think is a prank or he is being fr Gizmo confirmed the cage pose already, or do you mean the editor by Niblette? There is already an editor by Niblette, and this is an update to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenC Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 21 hours ago, Xaufin said: Nothing is preventing IK. And it's the only way to make different sizes work. Otherwise, with a slider that ranges from 0.0 to 1.0, they would have to hand animate every relevant pose to suit 100 different settings (0.00, 0.01, 0.02...) If the slider had only 3 states (small, medium, large), then they'd only have to hand animate 3 times for every relevant pose. But that's still more work than just implementing IK. If the pose editor could accommodate those slider values, it would still do so with IK. They wont allow below the knee dresses or skirts because of some clipping that would occur and this would be far worse. The variation from smallest to biggest is so much that you'd want at least 5 or maybe even 10 pre-sets so things didn't start getting ugly. IK wont solve the issues that you will get with this, you're not coupling a trailer to a lorry here, everything will need to be adjusted and animated if you care about quality. While its possible to do, I cant see them ever dedicating the resources to this that would be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana Prince Posted April 19, 2021 Author Share Posted April 19, 2021 On 4/17/2021 at 12:18 AM, Niblette said: Some questions about the new editor version: Will it be possible to load a picture as a background for the "canvas"? Instead of the white background? This way recreating a drawing would be easier And will there be a zoom function? I can see that there are small details in your drawing, and zooming in would help creating such details. I'm really really looking forward to this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, JenC said: They wont allow below the knee dresses or skirts because of some clipping that would occur and this would be far worse. The variation from smallest to biggest is so much that you'd want at least 5 or maybe even 10 pre-sets so things didn't start getting ugly. IK wont solve the issues that you will get with this, you're not coupling a trailer to a lorry here, everything will need to be adjusted and animated if you care about quality. While its possible to do, I cant see them ever dedicating the resources to this that would be needed. Really? not doubting you, but that is odd. Even in other Unity worlds there was less issues with clipping in dress's below the knee (more room? or because the dress replaced the legs?). I've seen more issues in clothes that are tight to the body. or perhaps, in other worlds (unlike 3dx) clothes replace the body underneath to save polygons (unlike 3dx)? Good and bad to that from what I see here as opposed to there. Good, cause you don't have clipping, bad cause you have no "body" underneath. Edited April 19, 2021 by THX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunarelf Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 12 hours ago, THX said: Really? not doubting you, but that is odd. Even in other Unity worlds there was less issues with clipping in dress's below the knee (more room? or because the dress replaced the legs?). I've seen more issues in clothes that are tight to the body. or perhaps, in other worlds (unlike 3dx) clothes replace the body underneath to save polygons (unlike 3dx)? Good and bad to that from what I see here as opposed to there. Good, cause you don't have clipping, bad cause you have no "body" underneath. The only problem is: ain't you know we don't got cloth calculations/rig so the dresses can't be longer than the leg, because it will go straight through it? if we really got a fabric engine in game, things will be solved easily: we can finally have some longer dresses, no more clothes will stuck into objects. but on the other hand: the stability of the game might be lag like sh....snail, because not everyone's computer has a strong cpu and graphic card I know it will be cool if we have that things, but unfortunately, 3dxchat it's still a last generation sex game, the only way to avoid these clipping glitches is make the clothes shorter---or tighter. maybe one day if the game updates to ue4 or having fabric engines, the problem will been solved pomme 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomme Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 I think that the clothes that we have its pull from the body that does not pose a problem for what is tight. look at this pretty ive saint laurent menteau which is relatively well done for body stretching. after that we really need new technology to improve, yes of course but they can exploit the maximum as they already do with their technical prowess which improved this game in one way or another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Lunarelf said: The only problem is: ain't you know we don't got cloth calculations/rig so the dresses can't be longer than the leg, because it will go straight through it? if we really got a fabric engine in game, things will be solved easily: we can finally have some longer dresses, no more clothes will stuck into objects. but on the other hand: the stability of the game might be lag like sh....snail, because not everyone's computer has a strong cpu and graphic card I know it will be cool if we have that things, but unfortunately, 3dxchat it's still a last generation sex game, the only way to avoid these clipping glitches is make the clothes shorter---or tighter. maybe one day if the game updates to ue4 or having fabric engines, the problem will been solved Never realized 3DX had that issue. Even with wider dresses towards the ankles?? Edit: went back and looked to see if I had any pictures,but don't. These wedding dresses I had started on texturing long ago (I didn't make the mesh). Does that mean this competitor has what you were speaking of? (I don't even remember anymore how to make the texture preview on the 3D) I don't see them ever switching game engines. They arn't even on the newest Unity version. Edited April 20, 2021 by THX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niblette Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Diana Prince said: Some questions about the new editor version: Will it be possible to load a picture as a background for the "canvas"? Instead of the white background? This way recreating a drawing would be easier And will there be a zoom function? I can see that there are small details in your drawing, and zooming in would help creating such details. I'm really really looking forward to this! A different background color might help sometimes the random line color is to close to the background color, or the color of another line, but I do let you chance the color of each line manually. I might add a zoom value as well or maybe a scrollable window that's a good idea there are a bunch of little tweaks like that which I'll look into adding. Basically what the program does right now is it lets you load an SVG file, and it takes all the paths, and then creates optimized lines that approximate the shape of the path. That's what the object number is its the number of lines that that particular path will have, so you can make something that only has a specific number of objects in it. So, any detailed editing would be done in something like inkscape or adobe illustrator. The first version might end up being a bit experimental there are a bunch of little things that could be a tad better, but are tricky to address without the main part of it being completely tested. Edited April 20, 2021 by Niblette Diana Prince 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunarelf Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 5 hours ago, THX said: Never realized 3DX had that issue. Even with wider dresses towards the ankles?? Edit: went back and looked to see if I had any pictures,but don't. These wedding dresses I had started on texturing long ago (I didn't make the mesh). Does that mean this competitor has what you were speaking of? (I don't even remember anymore how to make the texture preview on the 3D) I don't see them ever switching game engines. They arn't even on the newest Unity version. unfortunately, yes. although I'm not mean the competitors(seriously... are there any game like 3dxchat even exist except the pirated version?), but we can't having these kind of dresses. Because when avatar walks, it's walking animation might make their legs went through it. there is a solutions which doesn't need a individual rig for every dresses or fabric engine: which just like you said: make the ankle part "wider" , but there's 2 problem within this solution : 1:when avatar walking, there's still a small chance that their knee, heel or leg will went through it 2:this edit will make avatar can't sit down properly on the ground, because their dress will open up like a blunderbuss for honestly, these are really not hurting in those 3d chat games such as sl/imvu, but seems our devs have more strict requirements on the costume qualities, so the costumes may cause such problems might not appear in game, and that really make the game better. so maybe we'll see what will they add to game in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Lunarelf said: unfortunately, yes. although I'm not mean the competitors(seriously... are there any game like 3dxchat even exist except the pirated version?), but we can't having these kind of dresses. Because when avatar walks, it's walking animation might make their legs went through it. there is a solutions which doesn't need a individual rig for every dresses or fabric engine: which just like you said: make the ankle part "wider" , but there's 2 problem within this solution : 1:when avatar walking, there's still a small chance that their knee, heel or leg will went through it 2:this edit will make avatar can't sit down properly on the ground, because their dress will open up like a blunderbuss for honestly, these are really not hurting in those 3d chat games such as sl/imvu, but seems our devs have more strict requirements on the costume qualities, so the costumes may cause such problems might not appear in game, and that really make the game better. so maybe we'll see what will they add to game in future. "Competator" as in past tense. Yes, there was. Those are Meshes made for it. I have around 5075 male and Female UV/FBX clothing I think still. They were released as a map pack for designers to texture in the in game clothing Ediitor they had. There were quite advanced things in it that would be fantastic additions for here if the two companies ever had some agreement perhaps. As silly as I think marriage is in the game, if you have marriages you should at least have a few wedding dress styles. You and JenC and others I'm sure know far more about the mechanics of how clothing is rigged and what can be done in 3DX. However, I can safely say I never saw any clipping of legs through dresses in the Curio Unity project. Clipping would crop up mostly on close fitting clothes when the Avi was made extra large or obese. Edited April 20, 2021 by THX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunarelf Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 17 minutes ago, THX said: "Competator" as in past tense. Yes, there was. Those are Meshes made for it. I have around 50 UV/FBX clothing I think still. They were released as a map pack for designers to texture in the in game clothing Ediitor they had. You and JenC and others I'm sure know far more about the mechanics of how clothing is rigged and what can be done in 3DX. However, I can safely say I never saw any clipping of legs through dresses in the Curio Unity project. Clipping would crop up mostly on close fitting clothes when the Avi was made larger. If the game was never made... yes, it could be possible because all the display will be pre-maded for showing. but yea, it is possible to make the avatars completely fits their outfit and not clipping, just need some extra hours work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Lunarelf said: If the game was never made... yes, it could be possible because all the display will be pre-maded for showing. but yea, it is possible to make the avatars completely fits their outfit and not clipping, just need some extra hours work Oh, it was a fully functioning world like 3DX. Each world had pros and cons. They just bit off more than they could do and never focused on the most basic thing. Like avitar look, shading and aethetics. They were going to worry about that after all the backend was finished. Who wants a fugly avitar and terrible graphics even if the backend was so cutting edge? It was a fatal mistake. They lost millions of dollars. Edited April 20, 2021 by THX Lunarelf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunarelf Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, THX said: Oh, it was a fully functioning world like 3DX. Each world had pros and cons. They just bit off more than they could do and never focused on the most basic thing. Like avitar look, shading and aethetics. They were going to worry about that after all the backend was finished. Who wants a fugly avitar and terrible graphics even if the backend was so cutting edge? It was a fatal mistake. They lost millions of dollars. so that might be reason why 3dxchat doesn't have a fabric engine: because devs need more clients, but not all clients are gamers, especially for 2021, when graphic cards are crazilly expensive... Imagine that, if one day 3dxchat will really become like curio or a better version of sl, that will be a milestone on this planet's history lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenC Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 22 hours ago, THX said: Really? not doubting you, but that is odd. Even in other Unity worlds there was less issues with clipping in dress's below the knee (more room? or because the dress replaced the legs?). I've seen more issues in clothes that are tight to the body. or perhaps, in other worlds (unlike 3dx) clothes replace the body underneath to save polygons (unlike 3dx)? Good and bad to that from what I see here as opposed to there. Good, cause you don't have clipping, bad cause you have no "body" underneath. Yeah, I entered a cute spring dress and a strapless sanguine, both were knocked back because they were below the knee. THX 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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