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Donate feature: Cons and Pros.


THX

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1 minute ago, THX said:

 

All I can tell you is that screenshots and documentation are proof enough in other worlds.

I've always thought the best way to establish a 'paper trail' is to post it in a forum threadlike  before sharing as one form of proof. But that isn't required.

Cool...if the individual businesses that run those worlds are willing to use that as proof, and it's clear in their guidelines for builders, then I'm all for it. Whether it holds up in a court of law, that's way above my head. I'd hate to have to go and argue before a judge that I want to be fairly paid because someone stole my 3D online sex dungeon, but if whatever system ends up being used is admissible, great. For now, that's why I'd keep it simple. Just toss someone a few bucks for nice work and don't sweat it too much. B)

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On ‎7‎/‎30‎/‎2020 at 7:58 AM, Anaganda said:

May I suggest to add a way to have a toggle switch to make room files editable or uneditable.
I think that way it will solve builders problems of having their rooms used for profit... since you can only put that link through WE.

A cool idea, Ana...it would definitely solve the issue for donations, but could stifle creative sampling and inspiration that one builder can provide to others. I suppose if someone is really precious about their designs, they deserve the right to prevent others from using them, even as an inspiration to work from. I think that's the wrong idea to have in this environment though. I think everybody wins when good ideas are allowed to be shared.

Laz

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9 minutes ago, Fyrefly said:

Cool...if the individual businesses that run those worlds are willing to use that as proof, and it's clear in their guidelines for builders, then I'm all for it. Whether it holds up in a court of law, that's way above my head. I'd hate to have to go and argue before a judge that I want to be fairly paid because someone stole my 3D online sex dungeon, but if whatever system ends up being used is admissible, great. For now, that's why I'd keep it simple. Just toss someone a few bucks for nice work and don't sweat it too much. B)

 

I do agree with you that if you post it on a site, or in the forum that states  'what you uploaded can be used for commercial, redistribution or non personal use', you agreed to those terms as things to be shared and even given up, you transferred the right for others to use it anyway they want.

Like say Sally posts a couch or layout on the forum. Her intent is to share. It is for personal use unless spelled out otherwise. use it modify it, etc. Unless spelled out, it isn't anyone's to give to anyone else - period. Most builders know this.

I hear you about how messy it can get. That's why there are very clear guidelines in most worlds concerning created assets. It gets complicated and usually they have staff who investigate and make the calls and set bans or sanctions.  

 

Edited by THX
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2 minutes ago, THX said:

 

I do agree with you that if you post it on a site, or in the forum that states it what you uploaded can be used for commercial, redistribution or non personal uses, you agreed to those terms as things to be shared, you transferred the right for others to use it.

Like say Sally posts a couch or layout on the forum. There intent is to share. It is for others personal use unless spelled out otherwise. use it modify it, etc. Unless spelled out, it isn't anyone's to give to anyone else - period. Most builders know this.

I hear you about how messy it can get. That's why there are very clear guidelines in most worlds concerning created assets. It gets complicated and usually they have staff who invetigate and make the calls and set bans or sanctions.  

 

Thanks, THX...I guess the stumbling block that I'm running into is how ownership was actually managed and proven in 3DX pre-donation vs post-donation. I'll cop to using one of Amy LaRouche's places as my personal home, and filling it with a bunch of objects from other designers. If I give my modified file to a friend, without any kind of compensation, just passing on the combo of items I mixed up, am I in violation of the shared agreement? Does Amy have a right to say "Don't do that please."?

Now add to that scenario when it's a public space or open use environment...club, coffee shop, BDSM Family Fun Center, whatever. If I throw up the donation tab, with the intention that I want folks to recognize all the hard work I did putting all those elements together into a cool space, am I in violation of any agreement, shared or otherwise? Do any of the designers have a right to the few dollars I earn, assuming they have a way to prove that the elements I'm using were created by them before they were ever created or used by me? If that's the case, we're suddenly talking a radical reworking of the End User agreement as it stands now and needing some solid guidelines in place for how to document everything.

Messy doesn't begin to cover it...

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Youre going to end up with a bunch of user sites all selling tha same rooms and props they managed to snag for free.

And why do you peeps think you require a "Donation" for recognition anyway?  I would think personal ethics would prevent anyone who merely threw a bunch or D/Led props made by someone else into a Room made by someone else, to consider putting a Donate button on that room.... For recognition of what exactly LOL? Anyone who did that should do a self check  because now youre simply being greaaasey.

If ah was a Downloader of other peeps builds tha last thing id be thinking about would be sticking on a Donation button, eets like reselling a bowl of soup from a soup kitchen. 🤣

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Fyrefly said:

A cool idea, Ana...it would definitely solve the issue for donations, but could stifle creative sampling and inspiration that one builder can provide to others. I suppose if someone is really precious about their designs, they deserve the right to prevent others from using them, even as an inspiration to work from. I think that's the wrong idea to have in this environment though. I think everybody wins when good ideas are allowed to be shared.

Laz

mmmhm... which is why I still believe that this donation idea is one of the worst ideas ever and that it should be scrapped and thrown to the trash where it belongs.
stuffing money and finances in a whole side of the community that was based around sharing and good will... will just lead to ruining it.

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Stupid question maybe. And forgive me if this was explained somewhere. 
But about the Donation functionality. 
 

What’s in it for 3DX or SGD?

I mean they don’t get the donations, they’re basically allowing Users to profit from their game.

So what’s in it for them? Not sure I’m wording this right. 
Just feels odd that they’re letting players earn money basically with Their content. 
And get nothing in return. 
Know what I mean?

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I don't see any reason to think something Neferious is intended by adding this feature. I see no reason not to take them at their word they intended this for good reasons.

I REALLY like to see this feature. Sure, it can be abused, which was the purpose of the thread to demonstrate. However there is a lot of good also. There are always Pros and Cons.

What about the person who has ceribal palsy or MS  and is confined to a chair but likes being in 3DX  and DJ's or builds things? Why should they not be allowed to share in the joy of having a little 'business' and accept donations for their efforts? No one is forced to donate. What if that brings a sense of joy and purpose to their lives?

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2 hours ago, Derai said:

Stupid question maybe. And forgive me if this was explained somewhere. 
But about the Donation functionality. 
 

What’s in it for 3DX or SGD?

I mean they don’t get the donations, they’re basically allowing Users to profit from their game.

So what’s in it for them? Not sure I’m wording this right. 
Just feels odd that they’re letting players earn money basically with Their content. 
And get nothing in return. 
Know what I mean?

I don't think there any thing in it for them at all.

@Gizmo said they wanted to show some support to hosts... and I believe him... I just don't think this is the way to do it...

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So I want to clarify something, especially because I feel like the main argument being used against this is based on one small slice of the whole pie...

13 hours ago, Alliehotass said:

Youre going to end up with a bunch of user sites all selling tha same rooms and props they managed to snag for free.

And why do you peeps think you require a "Donation" for recognition anyway?  I would think personal ethics would prevent anyone who merely threw a bunch or D/Led props made by someone else into a Room made by someone else, to consider putting a Donate button on that room.... For recognition of what exactly LOL? Anyone who did that should do a self check  because now youre simply being greaaasey.

If ah was a Downloader of other peeps builds tha last thing id be thinking about would be sticking on a Donation button, eets like reselling a bowl of soup from a soup kitchen. 🤣

Assume for the moment all of the previous comments and arguments about HOW you prove original ownership are set aside. Also, it's clear the main concern is not "purchasing" a room for use later...no file or resources are transferring ownership. Instead, the only place this argument applies is if you're thinking of it as profiting off of a room or objects you got for free. You didn't make it, but you make money from it. That is a legitimate concern, but way more complicated to manage within the scope of this game, at least as it is now.

I'm not talking about someone who copies an entire room, whole cloth, doesn't modify a single pixel, and slaps a donate button on it claiming it's theirs. (Even if they change a few colors or textures, it's tacky...no argument here.)

But, I do think that there is some legitimate craft to designing a good room...layout, lighting, how things are arranged, traffic flow, internal consistency of design. For a freakin 3D sex game, you've got some world class designers in here. And not every one of those designers is creating 100% original content. The community grew around the ability to share cool objects with others and see what you could do with them. That's how life works... you take all of the resources you have at your disposal and  make amazing shit with it. Not everyone has the time, energy or desire to build everything from scratch, but there can still be dozen's of hours of thoughtful design and development using outside bits and pieces to build. Talk to a high end interior designer sometime and think about how they pull different elements together to make a room match the personality and desires of their clients. It takes work...and costs a shit ton of money.

So...maybe rooms here don't get that extreme (although the potential is there), but you still have the same idea. If someone creates a room with 99.9% all original content from the ground up, but then uses somebody else's doorknob off of a shared site to really pull the whole concept together, they are not a greaaasey thief as soon as they drop the Donate tag on it. And introducing the idea of recognition of effort is not automatically a bad thing...especially when someone can and should be commended for using existing stuff in interesting new ways. Besides, if I'm dumping a lot of time and effort into creating a nice home, and I want to shave off a little time by using someone else's blender in my kitchen, that shouldn't exclude others from applauding that by tossing me a dollar, if they so choose.

12 hours ago, Anaganda said:

mmmhm... which is why I still believe that this donation idea is one of the worst ideas ever and that it should be scrapped and thrown to the trash where it belongs.
stuffing money and finances in a whole side of the community that was based around sharing and good will... will just lead to ruining it.

I know it's not a perfect idea, Ana, but I have to respectfully disagree...since right now, donating is strictly voluntary. And yeah, like I mentioned in other comments above, all of the hoops related to ownership and compensation would get very ugly if you want to "sell" a design for someone else to use, and still get credit for it. But considering the world we live in now, if people get a little extra love for the time and effort they put in making cool spaces, with original OR non-original content, I'm good with that.

OK. /soapbox

Laz

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5 hours ago, Fyrefly said:

know it's not a perfect idea, Ana, but I have to respectfully disagree...since right now, donating is strictly voluntary. And yeah, like I mentioned in other comments above, all of the hoops related to ownership and compensation would get very ugly if you want to "sell" a design for someone else to use, and still get credit for it. But considering the world we live in now, if people get a little extra love for the time and effort they put in making cool spaces, with original OR non-original content, I'm good with that.

OK. /soapbox

the extra love is not for people who made the space it's for people who run it...
so more incentive for builders to either keep their builds for them selves, or sell it for real money.
my point is it's a nail in the coffin of sharing for the sake of sharing.
keep in mind also... being a good builder doesn't mean good host... I for one was advocate of collaboration... a good builder makes a good room and shares it with a good host who can invite a good dj... now tell me...in such scenario, who should get the "extra love"?
 

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6 hours ago, Fyrefly said:

"If someone creates a room with 99.9% all original content from the ground up, but then uses somebody else's doorknob off of a shared site to really pull the whole concept together, they are not a greaaasey thief as soon as they drop the Donate tag on it."

First off, someone who is able to build 99.9% of a build and cant make a door handle LOL...and Second...A Door Handle that pulls the concept of the build together, wow must be one important looking door handle......What i said was a bunch of D/Led props into a D/Led Room...let your own conscience be your guide, mine would tell me that any build not 100% made by me isnt worthy of a Donation Button and thats even if i believed i "deserved recognition" LOL..in actual reality i deserve "Nothing" i build because i love building, testing my skillz and seeing what my creation evolves to, that my thrill, not getting a dollar or 100 people in it.

And introducing the idea of recognition of effort is not automatically a bad thing...especially when someone can and should be commended for using existing stuff in interesting new ways. Besides, if I'm dumping a lot of time and effort into creating a nice home, and I want to shave off a little time by using someone else's blender in my kitchen, that shouldn't exclude others from applauding that by tossing me a dollar, if they so choose.

Well some people require a reward for doing something i guess, and by what you wrote there you seem to be one, being commended is never a reason to create something, getting a "Reward" from others shouldnt be what motivates one to build...... this allure of Reward is what motivates people to do all sorts of "Greeeeeasey" stuff.

If you desire the applause, the dollars, the rewards etc then go ahead, if your fine with using others hard work just so it made it easier for you then go ahead, if this brings you satisfaction then yay, good for you.......ive never seen your builds, the quality the eye for detail, the hours and hours of arranging you talk about, so i cannot judge, maybe one day i will and be able to. 

The Donation button will be abused, we all know it and its whether or not the pros out weigh the conns and the effect it will have on this game.....but we are all going to find out. 😇

 

 

 

 

Edited by Alliehotass
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40 minutes ago, Anaganda said:

the extra love is not for people who made the space it's for people who run it...
so more incentive for builders to either keep their builds for them selves, or sell it for real money.
my point is it's a nail in the coffin of sharing for the sake of sharing.
keep in mind also... being a good builder doesn't mean good host... I for one was advocate of collaboration... a good builder makes a good room and shares it with a good host who can invite a good dj... now tell me...in such scenario, who should get the "extra love"?
 

This was made to support the community, but I think all they will achieve is or to have less people sharing and less content available, or everything coming with a price.

It is hard to be against a donation system, if they are really a donation and not disguised sales, but kick it out from the room and make it availble on all profiles. A public room, it is a host, a builder, dj's, maybe people greeting, maybe a dance group, and rarely if not never all these are the host only, so why only host could get donation? Kick this button away for ever or put it on all profiles. 

 

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24 minutes ago, Anaganda said:

the extra love is not for people who made the space it's for people who run it...
so more incentive for builders to either keep their builds for them selves, or sell it for real money.
my point is it's a nail in the coffin of sharing for the sake of sharing.
keep in mind also... being a good builder doesn't mean good host... I for one was advocate of collaboration... a good builder makes a good room and shares it with a good host who can invite a good dj... now tell me...in such scenario, who should get the "extra love"?
 

you overcompicate things again lol ...if you dont want ppl earn extra dollar love from ur builds its very simple ...Dont give them permission  or dont share ur builds ...and you will say to me  thats the whole point  good faith good will blah blah share rooms free blah blah etc ...well u know very well when u give ur room free from ur good will the one download it could burn it break it merge with another etc ...im guessing u wont like it  but hey u share free  and even if u dont have any issue on what the person downloaded ur room will do ...why u care if they get donations ?...

Listen things are very simple and u make them complicated cause u dont like to spend ...So what is this simple i say ? well u can decide if you wanna share free ,if u wanna give full rights or no rights ...see its easy nothing to worry :) 

I ask you what if u share ur room for free and what if i go now download it and break half and merge  something else  and whole build looks like it s on blender ... do u have a say ? no cause u gave it free and u didnt specify the use ..i mean like come on cant a person break down a build and make a salad lol ...my point is that u wont be able to say hey X person dont break my build ...u cant u gave it free without any specifications  they can burnnnnnnnn it to the ground ....

hats why i come here and say '' you are free to use my rooms to earn donations from hosting them '' <<<<<See clarification 

 

i get it u dont like it but hey currently 1/3 of rooms have that extra love and keep going up  and i estimate in 1-2 months when everyone knows what exactly is that heart ..we will reach 90 % of rooms having that donation in their room cause trust me many dont follow and have 0 clue what this heart is lol ...imagine today i gave a link to someone ...Do u know what he did ? he logged out paste the link saw then log in back to game ...hahaha instead just alt tab and do that :) 

So give it a lil time till all players know about the donations and that they can earn money by just playing and im sure we will reach that 90 % 

not to mention many new players came for that feauture  and wanna open party rooms and dj in their  rooms earning donations ...

or just opening and hosting rooms so they feel they have a lil buisness ...

 

Its ok if u cant donate u dont have to click the donation no one by any means doesnt force you to donate  :)  nothing will change in ur game life ...you will get the same updates devs give ...

 

ok next s😉ubject 

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12 minutes ago, Aliviax said:

you overcompicate things again lol ...if you dont want ppl earn extra dollar love from ur builds its very simple ...Dont give them permission  or dont share ur builds ...and you will say to me  thats the whole point  good faith good will blah blah share rooms free blah blah etc ...well u know very well when u give ur room free from ur good will the one download it could burn it break it merge with another etc ...im guessing u wont like it  but hey u share free  and even if u dont have any issue on what the person downloaded ur room will do ...why u care if they get donations ?...

Listen things are very simple and u make them complicated cause u dont like to spend ...So what is this simple i say ? well u can decide if you wanna share free ,if u wanna give full rights or no rights ...see its easy nothing to worry :) 

I ask you what if u share ur room for free and what if i go now download it and break half and merge  something else  and whole build looks like it s on blender ... do u have a say ? no cause u gave it free and u didnt specify the use ..i mean like come on cant a person break down a build and make a salad lol ...my point is that u wont be able to say hey X person dont break my build ...u cant u gave it free without any specifications  they can burnnnnnnnn it to the ground ....

hats why i come here and say '' you are free to use my rooms to earn donations from hosting them '' <<<<<See clarification 

 

Indeed they can do whatever they want with it but not commercial use. Try to use some free materials on internet and start to sell it, if it is not public domain, even free, you will have issues.

I understand you defend your business, but your are not the one who is right and the persons who share for free the ones who are wrong.  There is tons of material on internet for free but not for commercial use.

We agree Alivia that I can go on your website, grab all your rooms, even the paying ones, and then put them for free on my website?

Edited by Torax
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10 minutes ago, Aliviax said:

you overcompicate things again lol ...if you dont want ppl earn extra dollar love from ur builds its very simple

doesn't understand the point... makes up some point out of her mind. over explains it in wall of pink text... then say people over complicates things 😂

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4 minutes ago, Torax said:

We agree Alivia that I can go on your website, grab all your rooms, even the paying ones, and then put them for free on my website?

YaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaY free Waffles fo everyooooooooooone WoooooooHooooooooooooooooo \o/\o/\o/\o/

Edited by Alliehotass
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Just now, Alliehotass said:

YaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaY free Waffles fo everyooooooooooone WoooooooHooooooooooooooooo \o/\o/\o/\o/

I will ask for donations, so I can buy these rooms, and then share them for free. It is for the good of the community no?

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1 minute ago, Torax said:

I will ask for donations, so I can buy these rooms, and then share them for free. It is for the good of the community no?

Dont ask me..ask your conscience.

Also ah was joking with tha free Waffles, was making a point.......eets wot ah said in a previous post, youre going to end up with a bunch of user sites all selling tha same rooms and added to that user sites giving them away fo free.................is this good for tha game? We Will See!

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1 minute ago, Alliehotass said:

Dont ask me..ask your conscience.

Also ah was joking with tha free Waffles, was making a point.......eets wot ah said in a previous post, youre going to end up with a bunch of user sites all selling tha same rooms and added to that user sites giving them away fo free.................is this good for tha game? We Will See!

Lol Allie, I didnt plan to do it, I just wanted to show how twisted it can be. She claims free is stupid, and I show her actually it is possible to kill her business.

There is space for free content and paying content, but we need some security that free dont become paying and paying dont become free. 

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35 minutes ago, Torax said:

Indeed they can do whatever they want with it but not commercial use. Try to use some free materials on internet and start to sell it, if it is not public domain, even free, you will have issues.

I understand you defend your business, but your are not the one who is right and the persons who share for free the ones who are wrong.  There is tons of material on internet for free but not for commercial use.

We agree Alivia that I can go on your website, grab all your rooms, even the paying ones, and then put them for free on my website?

as long as you pay u can burn them 😁

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35 minutes ago, Anaganda said:

doesn't understand the point... makes up some point out of her mind. over explains it in wall of pink text... then say people over complicates things 😂

So lemme spell it for you :) If you dont like Donating dont click the button hahaha  if u do like it and u love spend money like me then click it like no tomorrow :) 

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listen i get it that few ppl in  game dont like donating etc  but u have to respect those that want to donate and those that like to get the donations ...what u currently Do is you try force ur opinion on other ppl without respect them :) 

So whats the solution ? Do Not Click that shiny red button 😁i know it looks yummy and have its way in making u click it ...but noooo ..i know u can resist in not clicking it ..i belive in ur will to not click it :) 

Personaly im weak i click it hahaha ...

I dont get it why ur not like me that i dont mind what ppl Do after they buy my room.. i dont care if they mention me... if they break it or give it to their gf/bf whatever ..for me its pretty simple you buy my room whatever ur free to host and earn donations or burn it break it smash it whatever you like ...why cant you be like me :) 

Also to be clear ..supporting donating system doesnt mean ill go put donation on my room when i host  ..i havent done it and prolly wont do it  but others want to do it.

 

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2 hours ago, Anaganda said:

the extra love is not for people who made the space it's for people who run it...
so more incentive for builders to either keep their builds for them selves, or sell it for real money.
my point is it's a nail in the coffin of sharing for the sake of sharing.
keep in mind also... being a good builder doesn't mean good host... I for one was advocate of collaboration... a good builder makes a good room and shares it with a good host who can invite a good dj... now tell me...in such scenario, who should get the "extra love"?
 

In your example if the builder is also host and creator, they would get the whole thing. If a builder says "Hey, host my room, and you can split any income with me 50/50." and the Host says "Ok, can I hire a really good DJ?", and the builder says "Sure, but if they wanna get paid, it comes out of your half." then you start having a functioning economy, just like real life. If people want to get that involved about it, it's up to them. Many probably won't care that much.

If somebody wants to create an object and share it and say "You can't use this in any other build unless you pay me 10% of your take", then I would probably say "Let's wait until there's a way to actually prove you built it, sign a contract that says we have that deal, and a system in place to enforce it (The Long Answer)." or "Ok, never mind (The Short Answer)."  But sharing for the sake of sharing wouldn't stop. The noble 100%-ers can give away their stuff without asking or receiving anything for it, the others who make spaces with shared stuff (i.e. real people) can ask for donations for whatever reason (time, effort, paying for their sick cat's dialysis), using that voluntary button that no one is forced to click on.

Gosh...fascinating how things evolve, innit?

Laz

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1 hour ago, Fyrefly said:

In your example if the builder is also host and creator, they would get the whole thing. If a builder says "Hey, host my room, and you can split any income with me 50/50." and the Host says "Ok, can I hire a really good DJ?", and the builder says "Sure, but if they wanna get paid, it comes out of your half." then you start having a functioning economy, just like real life. If people want to get that involved about it, it's up to them. Many probably won't care that much.

If somebody wants to create an object and share it and say "You can't use this in any other build unless you pay me 10% of your take", then I would probably say "Let's wait until there's a way to actually prove you built it, sign a contract that says we have that deal, and a system in place to enforce it (The Long Answer)." or "Ok, never mind (The Short Answer)."  But sharing for the sake of sharing wouldn't stop. The noble 100%-ers can give away their stuff without asking or receiving anything for it, the others who make spaces with shared stuff (i.e. real people) can ask for donations for whatever reason (time, effort, paying for their sick cat's dialysis), using that voluntary button that no one is forced to click on.

Gosh...fascinating how things evolve, innit?

Laz

 

 

And now we get to wear things need to be.

It's not a question of having an economy now. There has been one here since you can buy gifts and get married and divorced.

It's here and I for one am glad - as long as there is enforcement.

I know there is a lot of worry about things being stolen. There is a solution.

Without Sexydevil making even a tiny bit of each transaction, what incentive is there to enforce anything?? NONE.

I'll take enforcement any day for a small fee over nothing.

Edited by THX
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