The Systemic Torture of Sin Club Patrons

[Matrix]

For well over a year, perhaps 2 years, the patrons of Sin Club have been forced to listen to a 4 hour loop, more or less, of the same music.

Sure we can turn it off and listen to our own music, but that does not give you the mood of the room.  Ever go to a party where everyone plays their own music in there ears?

When will the patrons of Sin Club start getting any respect?
Sin Club is the most used room and we are treated like crap.  How about a make over of Sin Club?  At the very least someone please change the music or add a lot more to the loop.

 

We must rise up against the machines!

[Yvonny]

 TO YOUR POINT OF "Ever go to a party where everyone plays their own music in there ear?" THERE IS INDEED PARTIES LIKE THAT , SORRY WASN´T ON TOPIC BUT  IF THAT WILL HAPPEN ALL THE OTHER STANDARD ROOM PATRONS WANT THEIR OWN REWORK AND YADA YADA YADA , SAME OLD STUFF , BUT GOOD LUCK ANYWAYS

 

 

[Ashbash]

Contact Lussian. All public location streams are his.

[MeiLing]

answer: he won't change the playlist

[AHT]

I'm sure I once asked Lussian and he was open to suggestions.

[Rob.]

Open to suggestions but did he follow them, my personal opinion is let the BDSMetal Gang of FOA take over, they play rock and metal and have enough members to not make it a constant repeating loop. But that's my personal opinion.

[Doc]

This is why I don't go there very often.

[Rob.]

Even if you signed the form what would be used for? It is not like you are making money out of djing and it was not lussian it was Gizmo before he gave all control instead of distributing and dividing. 

[Matrix]

Even if you signed the form what would be used for? It is not like you are making money out of djing and it was not lussian it was Gizmo before he gave all control instead of distributing and dividing. 

 

This would give one group an advantage over another. A much bigger playlist would help.  If their is some legal issue whereby only songs that Lussian has purchased can be played, then schedule DJ's and let them use songs they have purchased.

[Ashbash]

Agreed, I think Lussian should look into bringing a team of DJs back to the public for moment such as these, perhaps as someone mentioned already some FoA members who DJ to DJ at Sin Club, I think that would be fantastic!

[Matrix]

I don't agree it should be a specific group.  Its not fair to other 3DX members.

[MeiLing]

Chilles. you are missed

[Ashbash]

I don't agree it should be a specific group.  Its not fair to other 3DX members.

 

Maybe I worded it incorrectly, I mean as an example it would be cool to have some FoA members there, but not necessarily only FoA members.

[Rob.]

Thing about the groups at least the FOA and BDSMetal Gang, they are not controlling or sabotaging other groups parties, to my knowledge. They are fair and have enough djs together to keep more one club fresh with new music and new djs. As for the buying and purchased songs you would be shocked how many are versus are not legally purchased or even owned and there is no one monitoring the clubs to make sure they follows the rules set in specific countries. There are rules Gizmo and lussian can set but fact is people are expecting too much. Lussian is not Achilles, but he should take a page of what Achilles did in letting Rock DJs take over the Sin Club, it will beat the opera music that was playing there once.

[Stellania]

He allows live streaming doesn’t he? I think you have to sign a form declaring you’re licensed if memory serves me.

 

I shall search this very forum site and find out.

 

Love n hugs to panda

 

Yeah, that's the kicker .. many people offered services, I was one of them. Thing is, NO ONE can be FULLY licensed to cover all the countries of the players that come into Sin Club.

 

Buying a song doesn't mean you can legally broadcast it. It doesn't give you any rights to stream it, if that was the case i'd be legal because I get most of my music from the labels of the bands I play or the bands directly.

 

But regardless, those rights are covered by the P.R.O.'s (performance rights organizations) of each individual countries and compensation for playing has to be made to each of them. There's is no such thing as a "worldwide" blanket coverage for those rights and that is why there has been a HUGE drop in the number of "LEGAL" internet radio stations over the last years.

 

So, i SERIOUSLY doubt even LUSSIAN is legal, unless he dishes out the $$$ to pay for royalties to each countries that visit Sin OR creates his own music ..  and when he, or anyone else, asks YOU to be legal that's a bunch of baloney and only shows they have no clue what being "LEGAL" is all about when it comes to streaming music.

[Stellania]

I looked into and I do have PRS/PPL for those post band gigs when I’m asked to spin. Other stuff to cover me for my drumming when payment can be seen by the taxman (not cash in hand or beer lol) Ever since a friend got busted and I saw the fines I paid up PDQ. They went after a hairdresser who only had a radio on in her salon. No PRS/PPL and someone who didn’t like her and they slapped her with huge fine too.

 

That’s enough admin for something that’s a hobby. As for international stuff, you nailed it. I don’t think you can be full on legit unless you’re licensed in your home country and I guess the registered country of 3DX?

 

If someone knows, please share

 

Live performing rights falls into a different category .. you are a "collector" of those royalties .. IF the venue where you "mix / dj" is a member of the same PRO .. then that venue has to submit a report and then you get paid a few months after(very summarized sorry)

 

Your license country has nothing to do with it. It's who LISTENS in on the stream that matters. So, if you have Americans, Canadians and Germans listening on your stream .. be sure to have paid off the P.R.O's from those countries or they WILL sue you when someone reports you OR if they find out by any other means.

 

I was in a legal battle a few years ago(when i started my internet radio) with Ascap, Soundexchange and BMI who are P.R.O's in the USA and i'm in Canada. I had to block any incoming traffic from the US to all my streams OR .. be fined .. a hefty sum(in the tens of thousands of dollars). Luckily, I found a "blanket coverage" company for Canada and the US of A .. and was just left off with blocking the rest of the world from connecting to the stream.

 

Yes, they're a bunch of blood sucking bureaucrats that collect money under the blanket of "protecting the intellectual property" of the bands .. but ultimately the bands get pennies on the dollars.

 

So technically, if ANYONE wants to be fully licensed(please post how much you're going to be paying! LOL!) .. here's a "list" of the P.R.O's that you'd have to pay off!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_rights_organisation

 

And .. don't get me started on the GEMA .. the German P.R.O. .. those guys are to be taken even MORE seriously than the other ones.. 

[Stellania]

So back to topic .. 

 

What does Lussian mean when he asks for us to be "Legal" ?

[Ashbash]

So back to topic .. 

 

What does Lussian mean when he asks for us to be "Legal" ?

Only thing I can think of is to actually have purchased the songs you play on your sets, rather than ripping it from YouTube, Mixcloud, Soundcloud etc. That all music you play is actually paid for out of your pocket from stores like Google Music, Apple Music, Beatport etc.

[Stellania]

Only thing I can think of is to actually have purchased the songs you play on your sets, rather than ripping it from YouTube, Mixcloud, Soundcloud etc. That all music you play is actually paid for out of your pocket from stores like Google Music, Apple Music, Beatport etc.

 

Which still doesn't fix the licensing / royalties issues OR for people like me .. that have direct link to the suppliers of said music.

 

I mean no disrespect by the way, I commend people for buying music .. but .. it still is far from being "LEGAL" when we bring the 3DX, or any online, environment "into the mix".

[Ashbash]

Which still doesn't fix the licensing / royalties issues OR for people like me .. that have direct link to the suppliers of said music.

 

I mean no disrespect by the way, I commend people for buying music .. but .. it still is far from being "LEGAL" when we bring the 3DX, or any online, environment "into the mix".

No disrespect taken and the same to you, no disrespect is entailed. Of course. But typically with online radios, in regards to licensing it is impossible to pay every licensing body in the world a license fee for your music, there just won't be any money in it left. It's why typically local licensing bodies (Which are determined by the physical location that the online radio server is based, supply the license to you. This covers listeners to your stream, such as PRS for the UK, they cover this under their licensing acts, as long as the stream radio server location is based in the UK.

 

So if the server was based in germany for example, you wouldn't pay PRS, but GEMA and this will cover the royalties that you pay for the license to the licensing body, to make sure the music you play, which you supply a playlist to, will be paid the royalties due.

 

Edit: There is also the multi-territory license with the PRS that they've partnered with STIM and GEMA, which allows you to stream in the EU for the most part. For a singular license. https://www.prsformusic.com/licences/online-multi-territory-licences

 

Edit 2: The only issue with playing music in public is it's such a grey area. Because if you go by that logic, if someones ringtone goes off in a public place, technically they should pay royalties for that ringtone being played in public. The same if you want to "Show" your friends some new songs you got and you blast it out to your friends in public, it's just impossible to fully license music in the world with the licensing structure we have today. It needs to be reworked and improved, else Music licensing will be so stuck in the older age, that it will be difficult for any companies and venues to have music in their premises, which eventually will cave in on itself and the music industry will have some troubles. But I am not going to go into that, as that's a whole other story.

[Ashbash]

Found it

 

Phew.... lol

Here’s the OP:

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/4754-want-to-become-a-dj/?fromsearch=1

 

Here’s the form you complete :

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xn__bUEu57DGjj2nvYkkp0f7cdwgjWrS42sxtlbnQIg/mobilebasic

Oh damn I remember that one!

[Stellania]

Of course. But typically with online radios, in regards to licensing it is impossible to pay every licensing body in the world a license fee for your music, there just won't be any money in it left. It's why typically local licensing bodies (Which are determined by the physical location that the online radio server is based, supply the license to you. This covers listeners to your stream, such as PRS for the UK, they cover this under their licensing acts, as long as the stream radio server location is based in the UK.

 

So if the server was based in germany for example, you wouldn't pay PRS, but GEMA and this will cover the royalties that you pay for the license to the licensing body, to make sure the music you play, which you supply a playlist to, will be paid the royalties due.

 

Edit: There is also the multi-territory license with the PRS, which allows you to stream in the EU for the most part. For a singular license. https://www.prsformusic.com/licences/online-multi-territory-licences

 

Edit 2: The only issue with playing music in public is it's such a grey area. Because if you go by that logic, if someones ringtone goes off in a public place, technically they should pay royalties for that ringtone being played in public. The same if you want to "Show" your friends some new songs you got and you blast it out to your friends in public, it's just impossible to fully license music in the world with the licensing structure we have today. It needs to be reworked and improved, else Music licensing will be so stuck in the older age, that it will be difficult for any companies and venues to have music in their premises.

 

Music licensing IS already stuck in the "older age" as you put it. Bureaucrats that run it are already beyond the times. Out of curiosity, how much is the multi-territory licensing ?? Do you know ?

 

But, Multi country licensing is awesome if the price is right. In the US .. a "blanket coverage" of all the P.R.O's is about 60$ a month .. just for the US .. and ONLY for US based listeners. If a Canadian would connect to the stream hosted in the U.S., then the US station would have 2 choices .. either pay SOCAN (the Canadian P.R.O.) to continue broadcasting in Canada or block any incoming traffic from Canada

 

In your example though of GEMA, you would pay them to be able to broadcast to GERMANS .. your UK listeners wouldn't be covered unless you paid PRS. (unless you take that blanket coverage)

 

That is also why some videos on youtube cannot be accessed .. when you get the "Video unavailable in your country" .. that's a licensing / royalty issue .. and most of the times .. it's blocked from Germany.

[Stellania]

Found it

 

Phew.... lol

Here’s the OP:

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/4754-want-to-become-a-dj/?fromsearch=1

 

Here’s the form you complete :

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xn__bUEu57DGjj2nvYkkp0f7cdwgjWrS42sxtlbnQIg/mobilebasic

 

Ouch! That started off with a heated argument right off the bat .. 

 

The touchy line is :

 

 

 

have all the necessary licenses for broadcasting the music I provide. I agree that I will bear full responsibility by the law for the use of illegal music.

 

Keep in mind.. buying the music doesn't make it legal to stream it!

 

Which makes me wonder now  .. anyone knows what kind of arrangement SGD has with 181.FM for REstreaming their stations ?

[Lillianme]

Xanar goes live in Sin club from time to time. He has the keys.

[Mar Mohan]

I couldn't even begin to tell you how much I spend to be fully legal as the costs vary.  I am licensed, I buy all my music, pay all my royalties that are legally required to be paid across the board and the best part I gave up DJing on here because of the debates and such.  It used to be fun but now I don't bother as I do it in real.