A General Survey about Avatars in 3DXChat

[TheTruth3dx]

I have wasted enough time today dealing with your violations of the forums' terms and conditions. Review your posts from the last week and you can find them yourself. Truth.

[Perimede]

Can I ask what it is Mar_mohan finds so onbjectionable.

 

Is it because what I've surmisedis wrong? Namely that roughly 50% of users have one avi, roughly 25% have 2 and roughly 25% have 3. That a majority of users use mostly one avi even though they may have more. That the poll on gender balance is probably wrong?

 

Or is it because I have no right to surmise anything, even though my interpretation fits in with what I think is most people's in game experience?

 

Please explain.

[Sage Stoner]

Is it because what I've surmised it wrong? Namely that roughly 50% of users have one avi, roughly 25% have 2 and roughly 25% have 3. That a majority of users use mostly one avi even though they may have more. That the poll on gender balance is probably wrong?

 

 

I am not Mar Mohan, but I am going to address this particular statement.

 

Frankly, you do tend to make statements that fly in the face of factual evidence.

 

In my own opinion, the data from Forum polls might possibly present a reasonably accurate picture of the people who participate in the Forums, but are completely unreliable when it comes to understanding the demographics of the people who play the game but do not participate in the Forums. We have no real data on what percentage of players participate in both. And until we do, there is no way to know if the data from Forum polls is an accurate representation of the total player population or just the Forum participants. On the other hand, we do have Pandora data, which gives us a reliable picture of the in-game player population. 

 

So, as an example of what I am talking about, earlier in this thread, I presented an analysis of Pandora data, which stated:

 

...since there are some players who actually used two characters and some who actually used three characters, all we know for sure is that between 2000 and 4000 players used more than one character during those ten days. If we take the average of these two figures, then roughly 3000 players used more than one character, which means that 4700 of 7700 or 62% of all players did not use an alt.

 

This tells us that 62% of all players did not use an alt during a certain period of time. On the other hand, we know absolutely nothing about what percentage of players actually have only one character. The data we have gives us only a rough picture of how many used just one character. Moreover, we have absolutely no idea what the relative percentages are for players who use only two avis and for players who use three avis. So one can only wonder what you are on about when you claim that "that roughly 50% of users have one avi, roughly 25% have 2 and roughly 25% have 3." There simply is no reliable data to support such speculation.

 

Perhaps you think that approximations are good enough for the points you are trying to make. Sorry to disagree, but I think these issues are far to contentious to make decisions based on what amounts to speculation. To me, your approach just indicates sloppy thinking. The same sloppy thinking that leads you to insist that even though four out of five players do not want a common parent name to identify players with multiple alts, the fact that 20% want such a measure means that the Devs should do something. 

[Perimede]

That’s all good, Sage. It extends the thinking about the topic. Not sure there’s much to say until i’ve Had a think about it.

That’s the point i’m trying to get across, that thinking and talking about this stuff is useful and good for the game.

**Edit here*** - now I’ve started thinking a bit more about it. It is not, and was never intended to be, a rigorous survey, nor my rough analysis. All it is is an indicator, snapshot if you like. As such, while it can tell us something, it needs to viewed with caution and balanced against other stuff we know. Which is what I tried to do from the start. I think I made it clear the raw data is unreliable due to the small sample size. Looking at other information that I remembered from other threads and that you presented from Pandora a better picture emerged. Still not complete or reliable, but better.

I still think the information we have is good enough to make generalised statements, so we can say that most people don’t use all three avis and that most people who have more than one avi don’t use them all that often. That's a bit like how I use Pandora, she maybe ventures out once a month, but is mostly used for messing with outfits etc. Most of the people I know, appear to play in a similar way - not that I've felt it important to ask them.

 

Where I think I was sticking my kneck out was to suggest that amongst the roughly 25% who regularly use all three avis we'll find the users who use their alts to cause trouble. Probably a tiny minority, who are also likely to have more than one account, as RobT suggests. The consequence of this is that any action against the trouble makers has to take into account that it could adversely affect a significant number of people in game who use all three avis sensibly. Hence my trying to put together a set of criteria in Ex's thread. As you say, the user base of 3dxChat is probably several thousand so the numbers involved is significant.

 

Balance in all things is good in my book, and not to take too much for granted.

[TheTruth3dx]

How people choose do use their alts or conduct themselves in the game of 3dx is no business of yours until you begin to pay their subscriptions, or be the one writing the terms of service. Truth.

[Mar Mohan]

Sage, I could not have said it better myself.   I deal with data on a daily basis for the company I work for and create the reports for them based on the information of the data received for each specific thing and then as a whole.

[Perimede]

Bit of an afterthought here. The operative keywords i’ve used are: roughly, approximately, caution, suggests etc. Nothing to suggest as to what is, just possibly.

 

It does, when viewed with other information, go some way to illustrate what’s happening. So why the big guns?

 

I think there is sufficient here for people to develop ideas. We don’t have drive those ideas home, that’s Gizmo’s call. It does make sense to suggest things, and explain. If it’s good he may pick up on it.

[Mar Mohan]

@ Perimede Please go back through your posts on this thread.  A simple search of your name will show what you've said and those that replied.

 

Some of your posts:
http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=287619
http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=287679
http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=287739

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=288013

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=288123
http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=288229

 

[Perimede]

@ Perimede Please go back through your posts on this thread.  A simple search of your name will show what you've said and those that replied.

 

Some of your posts:

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=287619

Nothign definate said there, just we can safely say that blah, blah Just an suggestion that seems to come from teh information we have, limited though it is.

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=287679

In this post I say that the data is inaccurate and needs to be balanced against something else.

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=287739

Here I'm saying that despite its limitations it is saying something when supported by other information

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=288013

Here I challenged you to look for additional data that could confirm or deny what I surmised. You chose not to.

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=288123

Here I invited you to prove me wrong with additional data, which is available if you go looking. Again you chose not to.

 

So there you go - back to are you objecting because my surmising is wrong, even though it seems to explain people in game experience or are you saying I have no right to surmise anything? If I'm wrong then fine, I'd just like to see more information about it before I change my mind - given my in game experience seems to tally with what I surmised. Which I suppose is pretty obvious.

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=288229

I didn't bother with this one because I suspect it was saying much the same thing as the above.

 

[Mar Mohan]

 

@ Perimede Please go back through your posts on this thread.  A simple search of your name will show what you've said and those that replied.

 

Some of your posts:

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=287619

Nothign definate said there, just we can safely say that blah, blah Just an suggestion that seems to come from teh information we have, limited though it is.

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=287679

In this post I say that the data is inaccurate and needs to be balanced against something else.

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=287739

Here I'm saying that despite its limitations it is saying something when supported by other information

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=288013

Here I challenged you to look for additional data that could confirm or deny what I surmised. You chose not to.

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=288123

Here I invited you to prove me wrong with additional data, which is available if you go looking. Again you chose not to.

 

So there you go - back to are you objecting because my surmising is wrong, even though it seems to explain people in game experience or are you saying I have no right to surmise anything? If I'm wrong then fine, I'd just like to see more information about it before I change my mind - given my in game experience seems to tally with what I surmised. Which I suppose is pretty obvious.

http://3dxforum.com/index.php?/topic/7037-a-general-survey-about-avatars-in-3dxchat/?p=288229

I didn't bother with this one because I suspect it was saying much the same thing as the above.

 

 

I'm going to end this now.  No data will ever be right no matter where it comes from.  I've explained it countless times.  I do this for a living for the company I work for.  You'd have to poll the actual users and some users have more than one account so it would be difficult.  You only pick and choose what you want to show.  You've called me foolish, told me to stop whinging and so on because I've not agreed with you.  Again I deal with data on a daily basis for the company I work for so they can target specific areas and propose what they need to.  That is my life and it's single users they don't have multiple accounts to deal with but multiple contacts within one company so I can actually give more accurate data.  This game or any other game you're not going to get that, why because it's hard to get specific enough data.  That's why I said to reread your comments not pick and choose be reread them.  What you stated prior was the numbers are good and we can use them then state about using other data but countless people have told you it's not accurate.  I'm sorry I don't agree with you on this but that's my opinion as I work with data every day.  I never said you can't surmise but you've sat there and said the numbers are good.  My in game experience is completely different from yours.  I play the game to enjoy it and have fun with friends, building and DJing.  I don't make issues where there isn't one.  You've posted not only here but in others threads stating that your data is sufficient or the numbers are sufficient when examples are given and they could be worked with, I've not been the only one stating they not sufficient.  I give an opinion like anyone else even if it's not liked.  I don't trash someone's opinion because it doesn't agree with mine as I don't need to.

[Perimede]

No data will ever be right no matter where it comes from..

I think that is actually your point. So you will always refuse to accept any results. You say you work in statistics? The point i’m Making is that it possible to build up a picture using information, to be more general, from a number of sources.

 

What I surmised from the little bit of information I had does seem to support people’s in game experience. So while it is anything but accurate it does tell us something. That’s all i’ve been trying to say. It’s not like doomsday is about to happen.

 

**Edit Here** - I suppose we both agree that the information we have is unreliable and limited. Where we differ is that I think that we can surmise something from what we have, particularly if we consider other information from else where and our own individual experience in game. My two suggestions are basically common sense really - in my experience most people play mostly with one avi, although quite what we mean by 'mostly' is debatable. The other thing I suggested is that there are far fewer women playing the game than the little poll suggests - which also fits in with people's in game experience. In fact that idea has been the basis of many attacks on people who are women rl on the forums.

 

So what am I saying here with this edit - namely that despite it's limitations, by thinking about this little poll we can build up a bit of a rough picture which might be useful sometime.

[Mar Mohan]

As I've said before, the data isn't accurate.  I said I work with data before on your other thread as I do it for the company I work for and my two businesses.  You have to poll the users within the game to get anything that would be half decent to use to help target new users. We can go round and round on the matter.  I've said the same thing over and over you can't use outside or forum data as they don't actually use the game because they don't have a sub or are a small amount of current users.  Like the game there are alts on the forum, shit happens.  Only the information gathered from the game will give the best somewhat usable data.  You see how Gizmo did the Pose Editor Poll, he could have done that in game instead then had a suggestion thread as to why it would be good or bad on the forum.  Simple enough and he gets a response to go on.  Easy enough.  So I ask you to go back over and read what I've written as I've stated it all along, made suggestions of the same nature.

 

 

To get back on topic, it's Sex Game Devil who has the choice on how they want to implement anything into the game and what they implement.

[Perimede]

It’s not rigourous data, it’s a snapshot, an impression if you like, which seems to be supported by in game experience and odd little bits of data and information from elsewhere.

 

No big deal

 

You, RobT, have regularly referred to Twiggy by a man’s name, me too. Why? Because it is annoying. What I find particularly galling is that, as I’ve read it, that you have forced people in to ‘Proving’ they are women rl only to continue to say they’re blokes. I may have misread what was said in that instance but what sort of person does that sort of thing.

 

Do you want us all to post boob and fanny shots?

[Xandisweet]

The attacks you speak of are provocation. There’s a difference. I’m a rl woman in the forums and the only attacks I’ve gotten so far are from you.

[MeiLing]

isn't it time to put an end to this?