Our sweet and problematic ALT`s (tech.solution)

[JessicaX]

Nothing needs to be done really. We have Pandora and it really doesn't get any better than that for now. Anything they add will pale in comparison to Pandora.

[JessicaX]

dont let them fool you, far more are against this then for it, they just try to keep pushing the agenda. it will never happen.

 

They would not lose many. Only the mind fuckers who can't afford 2 accounts.

[Alliehotass]

Wilps that was a nice presentation and well thought out, good job.

 

Ok, so peeps who use alts ta mess with others would simply turn this feature off LOL why would they be open to sharing their alts if their whole reason fo havin them is to cause drams in tha first place.

 

So tha only peeps who would turn this feature on and then accept tha request are fun loving peeps here fo funs and ah tink some of them, if you asked nicely would prolly tell you.

 

The main problem with Pandora and this idea is not tha info attained but how eet is perceived.

Obviously info on a trouble maker, well known bah many as a Texting Terrorist is welcomed but on tha majority of fun lovin peeps is a problem.

 

Let me explain :  We all have tha ability to create an alt, with tha Gold we get there isn't much to spend eet on and alts are just another feature of this game. Im sure almost everyone has created one and if you havnt wilps that's your choice. So all our alts are there to be seen but how are they seen? Ah means a persons perception about why you tha alt maker made that alt and how you used eet etc are pure speculation from tha 3rd party. This is tha problem.

 

People make alts because Bob and Betty are so ugg LOL, they make them fo their partners, wives and hubbies, they make them fo quiet times so they can be anon and chill, they make them for DJ dancers fo when they DJ, they make them for many reasons. But having one fo some means youre up to no good or if you are a girl and have a man alt, then you must be a dooder, LOL this is tha paranoid personalities reasoning and this feature will make eet worse. Why? because refusing to share will mean to these types you are hiding something and obviously guilty as charged to their suspicions and unfounded allegations.

 

Now with this new feature idea there will arise another problem. How many requests bah nosey peeps will we all receive on a day to day. Should you be a person who tinks that this is mah personal info and mah choice, why should ah tell a nosey stranger mah bizzniss, decline their request what will happen next?

 

Mah belief is peeps will be discriminated and stories created, rumours made and circulated because surely if one declines to share their alts then they MUST be up to no good and obviously from that point their are peeps who will be disgruntled at not getting their info and drams will pursue.

 

This will divide tha community even more, tha open peeps who share everyting and tha "not to be trusted types" who don't, that will include tha real trouble makers and haters and those who believe in privacy and just having fun here.

 

Discrimination...….would this be against tha rules to judge someone purely on if they chose not to forward their info to a would be requester. Ah believe this will happen.

 

What this game really needs is a Dev that is intelligent enough to know who these real trouble makers are, from tha ongoing reports of abuse and 3rd party program usage to out those here to just have fun times, to tha WC Chat and personal attacks that are constant by these people yet they remain.

 

Tha simplest cure for this is a Dev and team willing to find a way or act and permanently ban these types from tha game because these Nasty types are prolly responsible for many peeps leaving tha game and lost profits and surely put new peeps off from resubbing and remaining.

 

Until this is addressed this place will never change, granted we can all ignore trouble makers but too late once you've been attacked and realize who is who in this place and who to igg. 

 

This place for some is a last refuge to mess with people because in RL they have burnt all their bridges and this is an easy place to come and hate on others and they are allowed to with tha never ending cycle of returning fo revenge and new victims. This is tha problem and should be tackled from tha top not with a broad brush feature that will in tha end divide us into tha 2 groups ah talked about earlier.

 

Eet was well thought out and presented very professionally,  good jobbins on that. 

[JessicaX]

Wilps that was a nice presentation and well thought out, good job.

 

Ok, so peeps who use alts ta mess with others would simply turn this feature off LOL why would they be open to sharing their alts if their whole reason fo havin them is to cause drams in tha first place.

 

So tha only peeps who would turn this feature on and then accept tha request are fun loving peeps here fo funs and ah tink some of them, if you asked nicely would prolly tell you.

 

The main problem with Pandora and this idea is not tha info attained but how eet is perceived.

Obviously info on a trouble maker, well known bah many as a Texting Terrorist is welcomed but on tha majority of fun lovin peeps is a problem.

 

Let me explain : We all have tha ability to create an alt, with tha Gold we get there isn't much to spend eet on and alts are just another feature of this game. Im sure almost everyone has created one and if you havnt wilps that's your choice. So all our alts are there to be seen but how are they seen? Ah means a persons perception about why you tha alt maker made that alt and how you used eet etc are pure speculation from tha 3rd party. This is tha problem.

 

People make alts because Bob and Betty are so ugg LOL, they make them fo their partners, wives and hubbies, they make them fo quiet times so they can be anon and chill, they make them for DJ dancers fo when they DJ, they make them for many reasons. But having one fo some means youre up to no good or if you are a girl and have a man alt, then you must be a dooder, LOL this is tha paranoid personalities reasoning and this feature will make eet worse. Why? because refusing to share will mean to these types you are hiding something and obviously guilty as charged to their suspicions and unfounded allegations.

 

Now with this new feature idea there will arise another problem. How many requests bah nosey peeps will we all receive on a day to day. Should you be a person who tinks that this is mah personal info and mah choice, why should ah tell a nosey stranger mah bizzniss, decline their request what will happen next?

 

Mah belief is peeps will be discriminated and stories created, rumours made and circulated because surely if one declines to share their alts then they MUST be up to no good and obviously from that point their are peeps who will be disgruntled at not getting their info and drams will pursue.

 

This will divide tha community even more, tha open peeps who share everyting and tha "not to be trusted types" who don't, that will include tha real trouble makers and haters and those who believe in privacy and just having fun here.

 

Discrimination...….would this be against tha rules to judge someone purely on if they chose not to forward their info to a would be requester. Ah believe this will happen.

 

What this game really needs is a Dev that is intelligent enough to know who these real trouble makers are, from tha ongoing reports of abuse and 3rd party program usage to out those here to just have fun times, to tha WC Chat and personal attacks that are constant by these people yet they remain.

 

Tha simplest cure for this is a Dev and team willing to find a way or act and permanently ban these types from tha game because these Nasty types are prolly responsible for many peeps leaving tha game and lost profits and surely put new peeps off from resubbing and remaining.

 

Until this is addressed this place will never change, granted we can all ignore trouble makers but too late once you've been attacked and realize who is who in this place and who to igg.

 

This place for some is a last refuge to mess with people because in RL they have burnt all their bridges and this is an easy place to come and hate on others and they are allowed to with tha never ending cycle of returning fo revenge and new victims. This is tha problem and should be tackled from tha top not with a broad brush feature that will in tha end divide us into tha 2 groups ah talked about earlier.

 

Eet was well thought out and presented very professionally, good jobbins on that.

I agree with most of this and it a serious problem when someone assumes the worst from someone just because they have an alt.

 

The problem for me arises when a new avi contacts me and poses as a naive newbie then come to find out they are someone who has been around for years.

 

You are right in that this really won't do much to curb anyones behavior.

[Twiggy]

I agree with most of this and it a serious problem when someone assumes the worst from someone just because that have an alt.

 

The problem for me arises when a new avi contacts me and poses as a naive newbie then come to find out they are someone who has been around for years.

 

You are right in that this really won't do much to curb anyones behavior.

 

Yes, that is why I believe the main feature that needs to be added to this is to be able to ask how many alts a person has.

Also maybe there needs to be like an auto response where we can set how we respond, like for instance have it so a message is automatically sent back to a request with something we configure to say.

So that would stop having to deal with a lot of cold request for information even if you choose to opt in.

Some would opt out all together, where a message is sent back saying so, others may set it to reveal how many alts they have, others may reveal the names of alts.

The main thing here is it would help newbies, they mostly would have no alts and very few if any gifts and such.

So unless someone is prepared to delete all their avis and show just one and loose all their gifts and such, then new players would be easier to see, or at least there would be much more chance they are a new player.

 

Yes I can see some problems where people who are not willing to show anything are likely to have to face suspicion.

But how many would not be prepared to at least reveal how many alts they have, and if they aren't, what would be the reason.

I can understand why some would not want to reveal the names of their alts, but I can't see why people would not want to reveal how many they have.

 

Me the way things are now for me, I would just reveal all my alts names, but there was a time where I would have not as I had one I used to get private time with my bf.

In that case I would have let it be known how many alts I had and also a message to say I have one alt that I use to get private time with my bf and do not wish to have people know the name.

If anyone was suspicious of me and didn't accept that answer I am sure some would then use Pandora, but if Pandora is so widely used and accepted as people are saying, wouldn't that happen anyway.

 

What I see with this is it won't do an awful lot to help against the mind fuckers, it may do a bit, it will help with other things though like newbies, stalkers and clingers.

People who make alts because they want to have another try with you or even just be constantly close to you without it being so obvious using only one avi.

[JessicaX]

I too have an alt for when I want alone time with my Lil. I am quite sure people have looked me up on Pandora and know of my alts but I just have a message in the profile stating that I am seeking peace and quiet and I have not been bothered yet.

[Twiggy]

Yes, that's much the same way I use to do it.

Plus I don't think there would be many who wouldn't accept it.

Although I don't know how vampires who don't want werewolves to know who they really are, or shy people who are trying to learn other languages would answer, lol

Oops, my bad.

[Perimede]

Pandora was created to line someones pockets. its been around far longer then most of you think, a form of it at least. Lets not make the person who created it out to be some bastion of goodness who only did it to help 3dx. 

 

As far as the small group of people who cause trouble, block them. I fail to see how any form of Pandora included in game would help at all. A block is account wide so the only way they can fuck with you again is a second account, which Pandora or something else cant detect so that argument is null and void.

 

as far as forum alts go,I am aware that you know as well as anyone that a few voted the opposite way in the polls as well. 

 

As for twiggy and her discussing, I am not even going to get into that. I have stated my opinion on that many times.

 

*last part edited because its redundant*

 

You're missing something here Rob

 

First if there were no need then Pandora would fail. It would not line someone's pockets. The fact it survives means there are sufficient people willing to pay for the information it provides to enable the developers to at least cover their costs.

 

Second no third party should have access to 3dx Chat data, basic data protection considerations. Bringing a Pandora style search facility in house pulls the rug from under Pandora's feet. As does doing something to make it more difficult to access 3dx Chat public data, like, as I've suggested, variable ID's or encryption.

 

Thirdly, let's take the example of a rumour monger. You block them or iggie them, leaving them free to do their worst without your knowledge. That is such a sensible solution! Iggie is reactive anyway, closes the door after the horse, or naked wanker, has bolted.

 

I think Allie and Jess have touched upon the problem we are trying to sort out. That of assuming someone new is up to no good when they might not be. This is no fault of the person making the assumption, it is the fault of those people who make alts and cause trouble. They are the ones who've eroded the trust in game. What this, and the other relate threads, are about is how to restablish and develop as sense of trust in the game.

 

3dx Chat is not cheap entertainment, yet troublemakers have second accounts to enable them to cause trouble with less chance of getting found out. That shows a worrying degree of determination.

 

Basically I'm in favour of whatever works - I don't want hassle in game. It's no inconvenience to me if alts are revealed, I only have the one and on those rare occassions she does venture out it's only for a laugh.

[Aliviax]

Why u take a game so seriously?

Tho I had a bad experience with someone that used multi Avis to trick me in having sex ,I was sad at first but its not on me if others are bad n then I though OK its a game why care.

 

What matters is what we do we are not responsible for what others do.

 

Above all its just a game some pixels in a year or two we might not even remember this game.

So don't get so serious in how many Avis ppl have.

If u want a much more true experience play second life it has in game voice n cam ;) harder to trick u if u like taking games seriously

[Perimede]

Point taken Aliva, but why pay for something that is being used by a small number of people to cause annoyance, at best, and in some cases actual distress? I've been lucky in that the bad bit of my in game exprience has been more of an annoyance or inconvenience. For some people these things have hit much harder, through no fault of their own. If you've forked out for a years sub, say, and someone decides to mess with you then you either have to muddle through to get value for your money or write off the equivalent to a half way decent meal out with people who value you.

[Mar Mohan]

Here's a good suggestion, Gizmo makes the game so you have one avi like most of the games out there.  You want more you have to get another account.  Simple enough.  But here is my statement to the matter, it's not going to make a real difference, the people mindfucking know of Pandora so the new account works for them.  Put it this way, you have colors or this suggestion to represent it's an alt but you use your second or third as your main as you don't use the one you initially made when you signed up.  Guess what you've not put less trust to that person then they presently have.  This new process could very fuck over the very people who have lost the trust in game, therefore bringing in more distrust because they'll be questioning everyone more than they do now.

 

This suggestion won't get rid of Pandora it's barely a substitute why because Pandora offers the deleted alts where this won't show that.  So guess what, someone creates an alt gets close to you, decides to just delete the alt without causing trouble to you but through contact with that alt have heard what you've said about them, they create another alt and talk shit on you, you then block them.  You think the problem is solved until they make a new account and start more shit.

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

On my opinion here will be only one conclusion. We can made a lot of ideas, a lot of solutions but always will be able to solve the problem ourselves

And mostly it happening like that.

[Alliehotass]

Aaaaw tanx Mr Rob miiiighty frandlee of yas hehehe.

 

Ok down ta bizzniss.

 

Ah tink with this system eet could very well create a situation of guilty until proven innocent.

 

Bah this ah mean ah can see a future of people igging anyone who refuses to forward info on their alts, purely innocent people being basically forced to comply or be ignored for doing nothing wrong. I am totes against this kind of behaviour.

 

Ah try mah hardest here to respect everyones game, regardless who you are what sex you are how many alts and how you play tha game, but im dead set against controlling others and demanding things. Im also against those who try to hurt others cause trouble for others and basically act like an acehole. We know of a few here that do this constantly, yet they are still here doing tha same ting without consiquences.

 

So we know tha Devs dont really care, not really so this whole idea, altho well thought out will neva see tha light of day. Why? wilps as stated tha Dev doesnt care, even when rules are blatently broken and proof of 3rd party progs such as Pandora are linked in Local Chat to a players Alt History and slanderous comments made and all this proven with pics and reported still no penalties are enforced. Yet if you spam tha Word "Love" in local you get a 19 hour ban ROFL!!

 

Basically tha Devs have made this game tha way eet is so blame them, this is purely a reflection of what they allow. 

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

Ah tink with this system eet could very well create a situation of guilty until proven innocent.

 

Bah this ah mean ah can see a future of people igging anyone who refuses to forward info on their alts, purely innocent people being basically forced to comply or be ignored for doing nothing wrong. I am totes against this kind of behaviour.

Nothing will be changed. Today the same situation and you can fly to someones iggy without reason as easy as someone`s paranoia.

[Perimede]

Firstly,they dont have access to 3dxdata,That is nothing more then rumors.   They have access to a public server. As far as rumour mongering , not only will this idea not help, it will make it far worse for those who choose to not have alts shown. they will be singled out and harassed and found guilty of things they didn't do

 

 

* I did steal some thoughts from my lil bud Allie so giving her full credit here*

Where does the data Pandora uses come from, if not from within 3dx Chat? Pandora polls 3dx Chat traffic and collates it. It is able to do this because this data is not protected in any way. It should be, yeah?

 

It is better that this is done in house rather than by a third party, yeah?

[Perimede]

Oh and btw - the devs will care a lot if, or when, their revenue starts to fall because something better establishes itself in the market. Better to be proactive and keep on top of stuff than reactive when it happens.

[Sage Stoner]

Pandora polls 3dx Chat traffic and collates it. It is able to do this because this data is not protected in any way. It should be, yeah?

 

Although there are two notable exceptions that I am aware of, Pandora in general only acquires information that can be acquired by anyone manually from profiles. So if this information were to be "protected," then the in-game profile function would no longer work. Yes, that is correct. By and large, almost all the information that Pandora acquires is information that we players have made public by our own volition. 

 

The two notable exceptions to this are the time and date of a character's most recent logon  and  the master ID, which it uses to identify and correlate alts. Apparently Pandora is able to query that information directly from the server, and one might argue that information ought to be protected. 

 

The implication, however, that Pandora is somehow acquiring personal information that otherwise would not be made public is somewhat misleading. 

[Perimede]

Um err, what about encryption? Both ends can talk to each other but it's hard for anybody to eavesdrop? So one key for PM's and group, another for local and a third for WC - simples. It just uses a little more processing power. The key's, of course, negotiated at log in or at connection to a PM. And there extends the limit of my knowledge of such things.

 

Does Pandora, btw, have to log in as a user to access the data? If not that raises huge questions .......................... can it, for example, eavesdrop on PM's or group. Does it know that I said to AHT once that Sagie is an old fart but an interesting one? Or that Tipsy is a cheeky moo?

 

OMG that is scarey!!!!

[Sammael]

It cannot read pms . the only thing is does is collect info in regards to a user id  because every account has only one user id. that enables the account wide ignores but also enables programs such as Pandora to collect info

 

Actually we don't have any idea what it does. All we have is the word of Gizmo for what it does. The fact that it can tell last logon suggests strongly that it is privy to more than can be publicly gleaned from just looking at profiles. Sorry but given the fact that the dev's have made no attempt whatsoever to prevent it inclines me to distrust them and indeed if it came out at some point there was collusion between the devs here and the people who made Pandora in the form of some api or other for them to gather data I would not be at all surprised. It would certainly not be difficult to decouple alts from the account id for sending publiclly while internally maintaining the account wide id to enable account banning.

[Perimede]

It can also tell when avis are deleted. Gizmo tells us it's scans 3dx Chat traffic and collates the publicly available data. We don't know the extent of the publicly available data. Personally I think the lack of any sort of data protection is worrying but I'm prepared to live with it for the opportunity to do what I do in game.

[Sammael]

You mean you have no idea what it does. I can assure you i know exactly what it does

bolllocks you do unless you wrote it

[Sage Stoner]

It can also tell when avis are deleted. Gizmo tells us it's scans 3dx Chat traffic and collates the publicly available data. We don't know the extent of the publicly available data. Personally I think the lack of any sort of data protection is worrying but I'm prepared to live with it for the opportunity to do what I do in game.

 

Again, that is something that all players can see for themselves by looking at the profile. Which means that encryption or other means of password protection are irrelevant. You continue to harp on this issue even after it is shown to be a red herring, which leads me to believe you really don't know what you're on about.  

[Niblette]

bolllocks you do unless you wrote it

 

Rob is likely right we have a fairly good idea of exactly how Pandora works and what it does. Because, I have heard and talked with people who know something about the inner workings of the server, and they have been quite clear about whats available, and how to get it. There are at least two other tools out there that let people connect to the server. They were useful before the world editor for making rooms. I don't think it would be that hard to break Pandora though I actually have some ideas on how to do that, but it seems they decided not to unless the server update they are making will. There is a good chance it might. I think right now having this whole discussion again is basically pointless if your concerned about alts I personally am not, just use Pandora. If they break Pandora then maybe there would be a point to it, but its basically not an issue right now.

[Sammael]

Rob is likely right we have a fairly good idea of exactly how Pandora works and what it does. Because, I have heard and talked with people who know something about the inner workings of the server, and they have been quite clear about whats available, and how to get it. There are at least two other tools out there that let people connect to the server. They were useful before the world editor for making rooms. I don't think it would be that hard to break Pandora though I actually have some ideas on how to do that, but it seems they decided not to unless the server update they are making will. There is a good chance it might. I think right now having this whole discussion again is basically pointless if your concerned about alts I personally am not, just use Pandora. If they break Pandora then maybe there would be a point to it, but its basically not an issue right now.

I am not concerned about alts in the least. I am concerned about Pandora and I am concerned that people really arent concerned and believe they know how Pandora works. Which as far as I can see is based on Gizmo saying "Don't worry it cant access the 3dx database" . Lets face it if it could he is hardly likely to admit it now is he as he would watch a lot of subs walk out the door so I take his assurances with a large pinch of salt.

[Perimede]

/me doesn't want to have to spell out the logic to Sagie, life's too short. Actually I think he's prolly teasing me, but hey ho .........................

 

Seriously though Pandora shouldn't have access to 3dxChat data at all - I don't want to repeat what I've said elsewhere. OK no rl personal data is involved but we do assume that only the people on our friends list know we're on line, that only the people we're PM'ing can read what we're saying etc. It begs the question of how much of the 3dChat data can be read by a bot, or whatever Pandora uses to scan the traffic. The optimum answer should be none of it, which we know isn't the case.