Should avatars belonging to an account have a common parent nickname?

[Briana]

Any solution ?

[Sammael]

Bottom line Twiggy its not others to prove why they wish to keep alts anonymous it is down to you who wish to change it to show that the harm it causes outweighs the good parts. If I have friends here and dont wish them to know I am curious about x fetish of which they disapprove why should I not be able to try it out in privacy and instead have to decide whether or not I value my friends more than trying something I am curious about.

 

From what I see most of those saying alts claim drama are ones who are prone to be drama queens in the first place and it really does not surprise me they attract it

[JessicaX]

Bottom line Twiggy its not others to prove why they wish to keep alts anonymous it is down to you who wish to change it to show that the harm it causes outweighs the good parts. If I have friends here and dont wish them to know I am curious about x fetish of which they disapprove why should I not be able to try it out in privacy and instead have to decide whether or not I value my friends more than trying something I am curious about.

 

From what I see most of those saying alts claim drama are ones who are prone to be drama queens in the first place and it really does not surprise me they attract it

 

That's pretty backwards way of thinking. This isn't a court case. 

[Perimede]

To be honest i’m not quite sure why Ex and Twiggy are banging away at each other. It seems to me there is more common ground between them than not. Myself I tend to lean towards Twiggy’s view because the way I play the game is similar to hers. I do have an alt who was created to allow me to experiment with stuff without messing my main avi up. She does venture out very occasionally.

 

Having said that I can see Ex’s point that alt’s can be enabling and most people use them sensibly.

 

Neither view alters the fact that there is a minority of people who cause trouble in game. I feel that they have landed in 3dxChat and made themselves at home. Honest sensible discussion here, together with reporting them in game when they overstep the mark, will all help to encourage them to move on or change their ways.

 

So what am I saying here? I suppose that this discussion is good and should continue but it makes me feel uncomfortable when people appear to fall out.

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

[Mar Mohan]

No matter how you look at things and how much people try to say there aren't really any problems that need to be addressed in 3DXChat there most definitely is.

The longer you stay in the game the more you get to realise this.

There are people that deliberately set out to disturb other peoples games, it can be through jealousy, resent, rejectment or infatuation, but it does happen and does happen far to often.

Alts are often used by these people, it could be something as simple as someone that has been asked not to be so clingy and give a person some space.

Where that person then creates alts to keep clinging onto the person they have developed an infatuation for.

 

The main people that are effected by this are the popular people, mostly through jealousy or someone trying to be to competitive.

We need the popular people in the game more than anyone else, they are the ones that mostly bring the fun into the game.

Yet we seem to willing to let them suffer because the game does not supply enough tools to help them protect themselves.

It is not just how we let alts be used there are other things that are needed as well, like a boot from room feature and a better friends list.

 

 

The game is not just a sex game and not just a role play game, never has been and most definitely is not now.

Gizmo uses Instagram to promote the game and in there he promotes it as a dating game. https://www.instagram.com/3dxchat/

 

There has still not been anyone give a decent reason why it is so important that they keep their alts anonymous.

Just about everything that has been put forward can be done if it is known to be an alt and would make very little difference.

Where it has been shown there are some things where it will make a difference, it is only minute and is nowhere near enough to justify there should not be any changes.

Until someone can show me a satisfactory reason why it is so important they need to keep their alts anonymous I will keep pushing for the changes.

If it effects your roleplay so badly you will need to explain why and not just say it effects your roleplay.

 

It's called account privacy even Pandora violates that as well as those that use it and announce in WC who your alts are.  You spend money for the subscription/XGold (even if earned daily) for the game. It doesn't matter what the person does with the alts it's still  a privacy issue.

[JessicaX]

It's called account privacy even Pandora violates that as well as those that use it and announce in WC who your alts are.  You spend money for the subscription/XGold (even if earned daily) for the game. It doesn't matter what the person does with the alts it's still  a privacy issue.

 

So your view is that you think people should be able to do whatever they want while on an alt with zero accountability?  I will respectfully disagree.

 

My point would be that all successful online worlds such as Second Life, etc have a common account identifier like what has been suggested so it's not something that's been detrimental to this type of platform. But it is clear that they understand the negative affects of what you call "privacy" and they have taken measures to keep them from affecting people. 

[Mar Mohan]

So your view is that you think people should be able to do whatever they want while on an alt with zero accountability?  I will respectfully disagree.

 

My point would be that all successful online worlds such as Second Life, etc have a common account identifier like what has been suggested so it's not something that's been detrimental to this type of platform. But it is clear that they understand the negative affects of what you call "privacy" and they have taken measures to keep them from affecting people. 

I didn't say that.  I said that it's about privacy and what you pay for.  SecondLife and IMVU don't have a common Identifier on accounts because you only have one avi on them so not sure where that comes from and I've been on both since the beta stages.

I never said I agreed with what people do if you had read through my other posts I stated it happens.  Please don't assume something is said that isn't.

 

Do you or anyone honestly believe that's going to stop people?  Hell no they'll get another account, it's that simple.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Mar Mohan

[Twiggy]

If you want to talk about privacy, privacy is being broken by people miss using alts, when they make alts to stalk or make alts to further cling to someone, meaning after you ask someone to give you some space because they are insisting on being around you all the time, they often make an alt or 2 and do the same thing with them.

Isn't it also invading your privacy then and when people use alts to spread rumours or even truths about someone.

Should it be private who owns an alt is the question here we are asking if we look at using an account identifier, as privacy in the game is being interrupted by people hiding behind alts.

If we look at using a way of being able to tell if an alt is an alt like colour coding, and still not know who that alt belongs to, are we really so badly breaking the privacy of players, I don't think so.

So if you want to talk about privacy, I think that argument goes more in favour of applying something to restrict how people can use alts.

 

We all know nothing will stop things completely, none of us are saying that, yes some will just create a second account or even more.

To compare to what they can so easily do now they would need to create another 2 accounts, so they have what they can do with 2nd and 3rd slots now.

Yes the people who play the game to cause trouble are likely to do that, or at least a good number of them.

But how many who stalk or manipulate do you think will go to the lengths of creating another account, people that just occasionally use alts in a way they shouldn't.

I would even suggest that lots of the ones that would go to the lengths of creating more accounts are already doing so because of Pandora.

 

At the moment if someone gets pissed off with someone, if they have 10k gold, all they have to do is create an alt to go around spreading rumours, very quick and very easy to do.

There are lots of circumstances where it is far to quick and easy for people to do so.

It is my opinion that if they have to create another account to be able to do it, then the amount of times it happens will be reduced by a large percentage.

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

Privacy is a privacy. And there is no point in arguing. Everything has been explained. Find another way.

[Twiggy]

Lets look at a couple of examples of role playing and see the difference of opinions on what is important and what is not.

 

A player makes an alt "SuperGirl" and plays the part of SuperGirl just for fun.

Someone knows who that player really is and says so in local chat, yes it can make difference to the player playing Supergirl, but is it really that dramatic.

 

A player makes an alt "SuperGirl", plays the part of Supergirl but also says things like, hey girls, you should have sex with Superman, he is so good in bed.

Then someone says in local they know that player is also Superman.

Now there it will make a much bigger difference, that players so called role play is completely stuffed, but shouldn't it be ?

[Sage Stoner]

So your view is that you think people should be able to do whatever they want while on an alt with zero accountability?  I will respectfully disagree.

 

My point would be that all successful online worlds such as Second Life, etc have a common account identifier like what has been suggested so it's not something that's been detrimental to this type of platform. But it is clear that they understand the negative affects of what you call "privacy" and they have taken measures to keep them from affecting people. 

 

The weak point of your argument is that troublemakers are already using multiple accounts rather than just multiple alts, so even if there were a common account identifier, I personally have a hard time believing that it would provide the kind of accountability you are talking about. Moreover, based on my own experience on IMVU, Second Life, and elsewhere, I have a hard time believing that there is more drama on 3DX than elsewhere. 

[Briana]

Who really invading privacy when both agree to go in? WTF

[JessicaX]

I didn't say that.  I said that it's about privacy and what you pay for.  SecondLife and IMVU don't have a common Identifier on accounts because you only have one avi on them so not sure where that comes from and I've been on both since the beta stages.

I never said I agreed with what people do if you had read through my other posts I stated it happens.  Please don't assume something is said that isn't.

 

Do you or anyone honestly believe that's going to stop people?  Hell no they'll get another account, it's that simple.

 

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alt_account_policies

 

SL has VERY strict policies regarding alternate accounts. At 1 point I had 3 characters in SL and they all had a common identifier so any one of my friends that were on could contact me if I was on an alt. How have you played since beta and not know this or understand how it works?

[JessicaX]

I didn't say that.  I said that it's about privacy and what you pay for.  SecondLife and IMVU don't have a common Identifier on accounts because you only have one avi on them so not sure where that comes from and I've been on both since the beta stages.

I never said I agreed with what people do if you had read through my other posts I stated it happens.  Please don't assume something is said that isn't.

 

Do you or anyone honestly believe that's going to stop people?  Hell no they'll get another account, it's that simple.

 

I said it seemed like you were saying that you think people should be able to do whatever they want while on an alt, because you said: "It doesn't matter what the person does with the alts"

I did not accuse you of agreeing to what other people do. 

Please don't assume something is said that isn't.

 

Also I am quite happy for Pandora. It doesn't fix the problem, but it does help even if just a tiny bit. It also forces the mind fuckers pay more money to do what they do and that makes me a little happier.   

[Perimede]

Me again, just reviewing what people have said over night. I'm struck by the two views on privacy. There appears a strong, what I see as largely, American view of privacy which seems to be that any intrusion by anybody is a complete no no for any reason. There is also a more tempered approach, which I'll call European, where we are prepared to accept certain intrusions for the greater good.

 

What it boils down to is whether you're playing as an alt or not, yourself or not, roleplaying or not, you don't have the right to behave like a twat. Treat people OK and generally speaking they'll treat you OK. Drive that ethos home, whether by policy, coding, talking about it or just living your 3dx life as decently as possible the ethos will gradually take hold and the trouble makers will become less of a problem. OK they won't go away altogether, we're all human after all and you may be the nicest person ever but you're still capable of doing something idiotic.

 

This debate is about how we can get the people who misbehave to choose to behave better. The way I see it is that the privacy lobby are saying no, no, no because the proposal here intrudes on thier right to make alts and behave in whatever way they chose. Given that, what actually do you do to get people to conform to sensible norms? This debate is based on a suggestion that could help, OK as the vote stands now it has been defeated, but we're still talking about it. The logical extension to the privacy lobby is to say that people have the right to murder, rape, steal, defraud and society has no right to stop them. So lets open the worlds prisons and see what happens? There are certain basic rules society expects it's members to conform to. 3dx Chat is no different in this respect. The ToS outline the basics as the devs see it.

 

Bullying, mind fucking or whatever you want to call it is contrary to ToS, even if not explicitly stated .............................. so what do we do to help reduce the incidence other than keep reporting people who do it. Most people don't have the time or inclination for it. We have seen, however, that when enough people make a concerted effort things do improve dramatically. So maybe what is needed is an approach more rooted in acceptance of the norms of 3dxChat rather than enforcement of those norms.

 

Before anybody says that this is the online world so there are no norms, the vast majority of people in game behave pretty decently towards each other, so there must be. Maybe we should ask what they might be. There's the usual isms, if I were to list them:- racism, sexism, etc. We don't like bullies, trolls etc. We prefer people to avoid behaving like idiots and to be polite. We do like meeting people, particularly from a wide range of cultures. We do like talking about ideas and beliefs and getting to know people we wouldn't otherwise come in to contact with. We shouldn't have to worry about the possibility that the people we meet might be up to no good. I don't really think anybody could argue with that, unless they want to be pendantic about the use of 'we' in this context.

 

Pandora came about because somebody saw a way of making a bit of money out of people who are fed up of being messed around and manipulated. I suggest that it was placed on the dark web and people pay via bitcoin because the people behind it wanted to hide. Now that makes me suspicious for a start. Then, of course, the market increased to include those people who like to mess around and manipulate. What is interesting is that I haven't discovered anything similar for SL or any other virtual world, which suggests that the problem of bad behaviour with alts is primarily a 3dx Chat one.

 

As I see it this discussion has presented the fors and againsts of the proposal. The time is right for a new proposal - could we have one from the privacy lobby? As I see it the proposals we've had on the forums so far have been from the 'we have a problem with in game behaviour' lobby.

[Sage Stoner]

The time is right for a new proposal 

 

 

Yes, I propose that we stop discussing the issue in this thread. The original poll showed conclusively that a large majority of those who answered were against having a common parent nickname. Those who disagree have presented a number of counterarguments, and the only thing that is clear is that we will never build a consensus on this topic. Therefore, this thread should be allowed to die a natural death.

 

If someone wants to argue that the people on the Forum who voted against this proposal are not necessary representative of the community overall and that we should approach this issue from a different perspective, then by all means feel free. But this thread should be closed.

[☙𝔼𝕩❧]

Mind fuckers nothing paying today, because they don`t use alts. They do it by main character. Surprise !?

 

SL, excuse me, is sucks. wanna SL, go and play. Here is the 3dxchat with beautiful, own atmosphere. so, don`t try to spoil this.

 

It doesn't matter what the person does with the alts. It is simple to understand that everything we say "except breaking rules". Don't assume something is said that isn't.

 

There isn`t american or european view of privacy. It is one view of privacy. You have no rights just to walk in someone house without asking. You have no rights to punish players yourself, we have rules, report function and support team to solve a problem. In our real life the same problems and the same solutions.

 

I have the same propose as Sage, It is clear here.

[Perimede]

Never say never:-)

 

It’s always worth trying to reach a concensus. It helps if people try to avoid getting entrenched in their own views.

[Mar Mohan]

If you want to talk about privacy, privacy is being broken by people miss using alts, when they make alts to stalk or make alts to further cling to someone, meaning after you ask someone to give you some space because they are insisting on being around you all the time, they often make an alt or 2 and do the same thing with them.

Isn't it also invading your privacy then and when people use alts to spread rumours or even truths about someone.

Should it be private who owns an alt is the question here we are asking if we look at using an account identifier, as privacy in the game is being interrupted by people hiding behind alts.

If we look at using a way of being able to tell if an alt is an alt like colour coding, and still not know who that alt belongs to, are we really so badly breaking the privacy of players, I don't think so.

So if you want to talk about privacy, I think that argument goes more in favour of applying something to restrict how people can use alts.

 

We all know nothing will stop things completely, none of us are saying that, yes some will just create a second account or even more.

To compare to what they can so easily do now they would need to create another 2 accounts, so they have what they can do with 2nd and 3rd slots now.

Yes the people who play the game to cause trouble are likely to do that, or at least a good number of them.

But how many who stalk or manipulate do you think will go to the lengths of creating another account, people that just occasionally use alts in a way they shouldn't.

I would even suggest that lots of the ones that would go to the lengths of creating more accounts are already doing so because of Pandora.

 

At the moment if someone gets pissed off with someone, if they have 10k gold, all they have to do is create an alt to go around spreading rumours, very quick and very easy to do.

There are lots of circumstances where it is far to quick and easy for people to do so.

It is my opinion that if they have to create another account to be able to do it, then the amount of times it happens will be reduced by a large percentage.

I was talking about account privacy not trust/respect which is where that comes into play.  You tell someone something and you trust/respect they will follow through.  Them using an alt comes down to trust/respect not privacy.

 

pri·va·cy noun: privacy

1. the state or condition of being free from being observed or disturbed by other people.

   "she returned to the privacy of her own home"

   synonyms: seclusion, solitude, isolation, freedom from disturbance, freedom from interference

   "protecting one's privacy"

   • the state of being free from public attention.

     "a law to restrict newspapers' freedom to invade people's privacy"

invasion of privacy:

n. the intrusion into the personal life of another, without just cause, which can give the person whose privacy has been invaded a right to bring a lawsuit for damages against the person or entity that intruded. However, public personages are not protected in most situations, since they have placed themselves already within the public eye, and their activities (even personal and sometimes intimate) are considered newsworthy, i.e. of legitimate public interest. However, an otherwise non-public individual has a right to privacy from: a) intrusion on one's solitude or into one's private affairs; public disclosure of embarrassing private information; c) publicity which puts him/her in a false light to the public; d) appropriation of one's name or picture for personal or commercial advantage. Lawsuits have arisen from magazine articles on obscure geniuses, use of a wife's name on a hospital insurance form to obtain insurance payment for delivery of a mistress's baby, unauthorized use of a girl's photo to advertise a photographer, and "tabloid" journalism treatment of people as freaks. There are also numerous instances of governmental invasion of privacy such as the Federal Bureau of Investigation compiling files on people considered as political opponents, partially corrected by the passage of the Freedom of Information Act in 1966. The right to privacy originated with an article in the Harvard Law Review in the 1890s written by lawyers "Bull" Warren and future Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis. Example:  Invasion of privacy is a legal term. It is used to describe a circumstance where an individual or organization knowingly intrudes upon a person. The intrusion occurs when the person has a reasonable expectation of privacy, such as in a bathroom or locker room. An invasion of privacy is considered to be a tort.

 

Definition of invasion of (someone's) privacy: a situation in which someone fails to respect a person's right to keep certain personal information from being known.  Example:  She felt that the guard's request to search her was an invasion of (her) privacy.

 

Realizing that Pandora would easily blow that as being an alt if you know someone with Pandora and can ask them to tell you, those that are going to go out of their way to spread rumors aren't going to do it so it points back to them, they'll create another account over using the gold they have because of Pandora.  I've also noticed that people will spread rumors on their main even when they're blocked it's creating another account to see what the person is saying when they do get blocked so that when something is said they can see it and reply.  There have been points made about hacks that allow users to see things anyway or go into a room but there are also a glitch that allows one to see as well even if for a little while.

 

Rumors are a form of Bullying/Cyberbulling/Slander/Defamation of Character and isn't against your privacy but your respect and trust that if you say something to them in confidence that they won't tell that is what they are breaking.

 

To be very direct having a marker on the account to identify an alt of that account isn't going to make a difference when they can easily make another account to do it which then they're wouldn't be a way to know it's the person even using Pandora.  Anyone that been on the game long enough knows this.  Most don't use an alt of theirs to do it because of Pandora.

 

People will find a way to work around what gets into place as they always have. Or the classic because someone used that name before and someone new takes the name because it's now available gets accused of being that person even though they state it's not them. 

 

Better way to solve the problem:

1.  Don't offer 2 or 3 avis but one.

2.  Don't allow a name to be used again unless it's on the same account it was created on.  (Should there still be 2 or 3 avis.)

3.  Prevent people from doing anything that goes against the rules.

4.  Prevent people from breaking your trust/respect.

 

The above are highly unlikely to happen but if you don't give up any of your personal information or get to involved with people you keep away from all of that.  If you play the game as a game and keep it simple you may not have that problem.  There will always be someone there but it's less likely by keeping it simple.

 

If the game gets to be to much then know it's time to take a break. A lot that have been there a while do that because it's easier to walk away then stay and keep the cycle on repeat and see it all the time even if it doesn't involve them.  WC is a classic example of that.  The expression "Same shit, different day" is a good way to explain it.

 

I've been through the issue with people using alts to say and do things against me and even on their main, do I agree it's right no but it's going to happen to anyone.  So you live and learn to move on from it.

[Mar Mohan]

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alt_account_policies

 

SL has VERY strict policies regarding alternate accounts. At 1 point I had 3 characters in SL and they all had a common identifier so any one of my friends that were on could contact me if I was on an alt. How have you played since beta and not know this or understand how it works?

They don't put it on your account as only SecondLife can see it to know that you are making more than one account and they only allow you 5 accounts per household and if you choose to make more they charge you.  I have two account on there one is regular and one is Premium and neither show anything on there that they are tied to one account so I beg to differ.  So yes, I do know what I'm talking about.

 

Adding:

IMVU, SecondLIfe, Utherverse (has 5 offered on one account)  None show a common identifier on them unless you put the information there for others to see just like here.  There isn't Pandora for those games to see the history.  IMVU used to have it where you could see the name history but because of issues decided to remove that function from the game so now you can't see it and even your friends can't tell if you change your name and picture unless they look at the profile and see if something is the same or you tell them.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Mar Mohan

[Mar Mohan]

I said it seemed like you were saying that you think people should be able to do whatever they want while on an alt, because you said: "It doesn't matter what the person does with the alts"

I did not accuse you of agreeing to what other people do. 

Please don't assume something is said that isn't.

 

Also I am quite happy for Pandora. It doesn't fix the problem, but it does help even if just a tiny bit. It also forces the mind fuckers pay more money to do what they do and that makes me a little happier.   

I never say they shouldn't be held accountable for what they do as I was speaking about account privacy.  You assumed that is what I had said but if you read what I had wrote prior to that with my comments you would see I never had agreed with it simply stated that they do it.  They are going to do that no matter what they'll create another account and do it so it's not going to make the difference.  The only people that are going to benefit from the making of new accounts is the game owners.  It won't matter how much we complain they'll tell us to use the ignore and report features, plain and simple as they've said it many times before.

[JessicaX]

Yes, I propose that we stop discussing the issue in this thread. The original poll showed conclusively that a large majority of those who answered were against having a common parent nickname. Those who disagree have presented a number of counterarguments, and the only thing that is clear is that we will never build a consensus on this topic. Therefore, this thread should be allowed to die a natural death.

 

If someone wants to argue that the people on the Forum who voted against this proposal are not necessary representative of the community overall and that we should approach this issue from a different perspective, then by all means feel free. But this thread should be closed.

 

It is important to understand that the majority in something doesn't always constitute the greater good or best interests of everyone. I am quite sure if the devs started a poll to determine if people were given a choice of a paid subscription or play 3dx for free, you would have a very hard time finding people willing to pay the subscription. This would likely hurt the overall quality of 3dx as a whole. 

 

You can see a blinding example of this when it comes to music and the million DJs present in 3dx. The option is there for people to respect and show support for the music they use by obtaining it legally, but very few people choose this route.The most popular route by far is to use the free illegal music. Of course if we all did this, there would be no music.  

 

I also agree that we will probably never reach a consensus. Its hard to get a large group of people to agree on anything, even something simple as the grass being green.  

[JessicaX]

I never say they shouldn't be held accountable for what they do as I was speaking about account privacy.  You assumed that is what I had said but if you read what I had wrote prior to that with my comments you would see I never had agreed with it simply stated that they do it.  They are going to do that no matter what they'll create another account and do it so it's not going to make the difference.  The only people that are going to benefit from the making of new accounts is the game owners.  It won't matter how much we complain they'll tell us to use the ignore and report features, plain and simple as they've said it many times before.

 

SOME are going to do it no matter what. Some are also deterred by the extra costs. Some is better than none. 

[Briana]

 

Its hard to get a large group of people to agree on anything, even something simple as the grass being green.  

Mine is blue