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Speak for yourself..you sure don't speak for me..


Lilcal

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I have never opened my own thread before...woooo..  this is damn exciting!!  LOL  yaaay me!  

 

So I love to read the forums.. I love to read WC, when I'm not running my own mouth a mile a minute.  I have noticed a few things..things that rub me wrong.  ME..not all women..not all players..just ME.  Forum posts seems to turn the way of gender arguments and many times right into bashing.. they also focus on "trolls" a lot, which then turns into people telling others what they should or should not do.  How they should or should not play..

 

A little about me first.. simply so there is an idea of the person who is writing this and where my opinions may have been formed.. I was born with a vagina ( this to help stay away from any discussion of what a woman really is)..I'm married in RL.. I am in a long term relationship online.. I have children.. I work on my own cars.. i fight better than most men I know..I have been a single mom..have put myself through college..had a successful career..and am now a housewife...I make sandwiches and cook and iron and wait on my boys hand and foot...and I do all of it by choice.  No other man or woman or glass ceiling has forced me or stopped me from living the way I choose.  I love that in my old age I have learned to be just what i want to be  and to do just what i want to do.  My life is not predetermined by what other women or men deem is what ALL women want or need or feel.  I am neither a feminist nor am I subservient to others..I am not a troll but I do love a good argument from time to time.. I am a mix of many things..all formed by my own experiences and life. I have likes and dislikes and expect no one else to feel the same. No other person has experienced the world in the same way as I..therefore not one other person can speak for me.

 

So to the real point.. of course I have expectations of the people who choose to interact with me.  If it turns out that our expectations don't match up.. I move on.  What i don't understand is people trying to tell others that because their expectations don't match up, that person is playing "wrong". Or even worse.. women telling men (or vice versa) what all women or men want or expect.  Or telling people here in the forums or WC that their "trolling" or arguments ruin the game for other people. 

 

Examples:   The post talking about what men do wrong.. (to cover my ass..  it said nothing like "to me"  it was a generalization and not specific to how the poster and people who reply want to be or dislike being approached..but as..I am woman and I speak for all when I say you are doing this wrong)  

 

All the post about how Trolling and arguments both in forums and WC ruin the game for "everyone else"

 

There isnt a single one of us that can speak for our entire Country..Gender..or whatever the hell else.  I assure you that no other woman speaks for me just because we have a vagina in common.  How do you know there arent woman who love to be approached in just the way that you disparaged. Or who like silent pose hopping.  Those people trolling and arguing must find enjoyment in it or they would not do it. So this would not ruin a darn thing for them or others who also enjoy that kind of thing.  I dont enjoy participating, so I dont.  I do however enjoy the entertainment of it from time to time.. If i dont want to see it at the moment.. I simply stop watching.  That is something we are all capable of.. unless of course your enjoyment comes simply from arguing with the ppl you are accusing of ruining the game with their trolling and such.. (whoooo that sentence made my head spin a little).  More power to ya if that is the case.. I would never presume to tell someone how to enjoy something they paid for with their own money.. own it!  

 

My point is this i guess.. all this public troll hater..man hater..trans hater blaaaah blaaaah shit is stupid and way beyond lame..  you dont speak for me, what I like, or what I've experienced because you are a woman.. you dont speak for me or anyone else because you don't enjoy the trolling.. you dont speak for me or anyone else because you support or even hate TG's or guys playing as women or any other damn thing. Everyone has an opinion..they are not all going to line up..that doesn't mean that either opinion is wrong or right..express your opinions!  Argue,  fight, fuck, cold, talk shit, whine..you paid to be here.. do what tickles your pickle!! Do not tell me what or how I should enjoy what I also paid for though.. and don't think you speak for anyone but your damn selves..

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Call me cynical but i’m Intrigued as to what decided you to post now. There have been some significant threads lately with diverse views expressed. I don’t recall you posting. I hope your thread does better than those and you get a response in line with what you want.

 

You're right though, nobody can say they speak for all women, men or any other group any more than we can say Donald Trump speaks for all Americans. I think we all sense when there’s a good chance our opinion fits in with the mainstream and when it doesn’t. It doesn’t always stop us talking bollocks though.

 

In defence of my thread, it is meant only to be a little bit of fun, as a contrast to all the seriousness. I’ve tried to reinforce that so it may be worth your while popping along to have a bit of a giggle, and perhaps contribute if you have an anecdote about men, women, whatever. Basically the silly things people do ............. huge plug here.

 

Good luck with your thread.

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Cynical?  Intrigued??  Are you asking if there is some nefarious reason for my deciding to post now??  No reason to be cynical..although Im happy that you are intrigued.. yes  your post had a lot to do with my decision to post now..  as stated above.  So I have popped along and had a bit of a giggle at some of the replies.   The giggle didnt change my opinion that you were purporting to speak for all women..nor did your defense change the tone of the post or the topic..It doesnt say..  the silly things people do..but, the things men do wrong..Who you to tell anyone what they are doing wrong??? Or even that its wrong to begin with?? You have the right to your opinion..  That is why I posted in my own thread instead of yours..   

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You had a look and had a giggle, that's all I ask. An amusing, silly, light hearted post from you would be the icing on the cake.

 

Nooo, I never profess to speak for all women, or all anybody, except where I have the authority to do so. Sorry if I gave that impression, it wasn't intended that way. I do know my views on feminism and women's stuff are pretty mainstream and boringly middle of the road though, certainly the way it's portrayed in the media in the UK. Between you and me and ............................. looks around and sees the whole forum population watching ............................. I do enjoy the way a huge range of views are expressed in on-line forums. Like you, I don't like it when it gets bitchy or abusive.

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I have sat here.. read over your reply a couple times.. tryin to form my reply.. do I answer this honestly and show my distaste?  Do I answer tactfully as to try and avoid another forum argument? Do I simply not reply at all?  As I am feelin rather argumentative at the moment and I did open this thread.. I will go with the honestly option.  I do warn you though, that I have no stamina in this kind of thing.. and don't really care to try and change your mind..so i will most likely bow out at some point.   

 

Nooo, I never.....except...words from the same sentence in your post..  they are contradictory.  Is it never?  Or is it sometimes?  how much is sometimes??  And when does it become regularly?  Is there a certain number of times that still qualifies as never?

 

where I have the authority to do so..  What and who gave you authority?  How do you decide when you have that "authority"  to speak for everyone?  If your a Doctor..does that give you the authority to speak for all?  I find doctors have differing opinions on most things... If your a cop does that give you the authority to speak on law, everywhere for everything??  No  here in the States laws differ state to state and while they shouldnt, have some degree of interpretation involved.  If your a priest does that give you the authority to speak for all god believing people?   

 

And why should I be expected to post a silly lighthearted post?  Is that something you have authority on??  What if Im not a silly lighthearted person?  What if I dont enjoy that kind of thing?

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aaand just because I have just read another post you made in another thread which illustrate my point...

 

Your words

 

"Clearly anybody using the forums as a source to help decide which to chose will not get a good impression of 3dx Chat."   This is your opinion.. because you dont like it.. someone who likes to argue n such would jump in feet first.

 

"it makes Gizmo's product look bad and doesn't reflect well on Gizmo himself."  To who?? And how do you know it doesnt reflect exactly what he wanted?  Have you personally had a conversation about this with him?  Is that how you have your "authority" to again speak for the masses?

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I am going to say this, I wasn't going to but I think I have to.  I have never, ever, professed to speak for women as a whole. Check what I say, read the words OK, show me where I do so. Quote me, in context, if you like. To accuse me of doing so is just like .................... anybody reading this knows the list of the usual names. That is why I was suspicious of your original post.

 

I do speak on many matters professionally. When I do so I make sure I have sufficient competence to carry the issues through, to the satisfaction of my boss and his investors. I also deal with technical issues associated with some pretty new technologies. So don't you dare do what RobT, Mulan, Briana, Mar_Mohan et al do and misconstrue what I say and try to batter me with it. The fact that your approach and line is consistent with theirs says a lot about you. The line itself says a lot about all of you.

 

I'll now disengage from this one. You can say what the hell you like but I will not crawl off and shut up like you want me to. My views are niether extreme, nor unusual. They are pretty much in the middle of opinion in the western world. Do not make things out to be what they are not.

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I feel like some of the postings lately have gone from being helpful and trying to bring things to people's attention to telling people how they should think and act its became a bit much really.

 

Really?  Does expressing an opinion equate to telling other people that they should have the same opinion? Personally, I don't think so.

 

So, for example, a lot of Americans make general statements with "you" as the subject pronoun. And I guess that to some, it sounds like they are telling other people how to act. But to me, discussions on this Forum are based on the fundamental assumption that we all pay for a subscription, which to me means that we are all entitled to the same autonomy. Which means that, irrespective of how strongly something is worded, ultimately, all we are ding here is expressing our own opinion.

 

I suppose, since this is a public forum with lots of participants who are not native speakers of English, that instead of saying "You shouldn't be telling other people what to think," it would be clearer to say "In my opinion, no one has the right to tell anyone one else what to think." But none of us write that carefully all the time. Nor do I see any reason that we should.   

 

Yes, there has been a lot of nastiness and a lot of misunderstandings lately. But I for one would prefer not to walk on eggshells every time I have an opinion to express. 

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I am going to say this, I wasn't going to but I think I have to.  I have never, ever, professed to speak for women as a whole. Check what I say, read the words OK, show me where I do so. Quote me, in context, if you like. To accuse me of doing so is just like .................... anybody reading this knows the list of the usual names. That is why I was suspicious of your original post.

 

I do speak on many matters professionally. When I do so I make sure I have sufficient competence to carry the issues through, to the satisfaction of my boss and his investors. I also deal with technical issues associated with some pretty new technologies. So don't you dare do what RobT, Mulan, Briana, Mar_Mohan et al do and misconstrue what I say and try to batter me with it. The fact that your approach and line is consistent with theirs says a lot about you. The line itself says a lot about all of you.

 

I'll now disengage from this one. You can say what the hell you like but I will not crawl off and shut up like you want me to. My views are niether extreme, nor unusual. They are pretty much in the middle of opinion in the western world. Do not make things out to be what they are not.

Stop using my name as example please, thank you

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I am going to say this, I wasn't going to but I think I have to.  I have never, ever, professed to speak for women as a whole. Check what I say, read the words OK, show me where I do so. Quote me, in context, if you like. To accuse me of doing so is just like .................... anybody reading this knows the list of the usual names. That is why I was suspicious of your original post.

 

I do speak on many matters professionally. When I do so I make sure I have sufficient competence to carry the issues through, to the satisfaction of my boss and his investors. I also deal with technical issues associated with some pretty new technologies. So don't you dare do what RobT, Mulan, Briana, Mar_Mohan et al do and misconstrue what I say and try to batter me with it. The fact that your approach and line is consistent with theirs says a lot about you. The line itself says a lot about all of you.

 

I'll now disengage from this one. You can say what the hell you like but I will not crawl off and shut up like you want me to. My views are niether extreme, nor unusual. They are pretty much in the middle of opinion in the western world. Do not make things out to be what they are not.

 

I feel my interest waning.. this is about where i get bored and bow out.. when arguments are spewed that make no sense or contradict previous arguments..  I have quoted you and posted examples of why I formed my original post already.. please read back if you need a refresher.  I believe you are quite well spoken and I know that I am intelligent enough to read plain english so I dont believe that I have misconstrued anything that you have said.  I just flat out disagree and dont like your approach.  I also dont believe that ever asked you to shut up.. I promise that I am quite straight forward and my own words will not be misconstrued..shut up will read exactly like that.. shut up..  But as I have said, you are entitled to your opinion and I would never ask you to do so. 

 

As for usual names.. I do believe the very first line in my post stated this was my very first thread.. I have been around on forums and in world for around 2 years now..  I am curious to know what exactly  you are suspicious about?  Im quite confused at that. 

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And hijack away gentlemen!!  If i dont want to read it.. i will simply scroll past it!  My mouse is an awesome thing  its got a wheel and everything!!     Gasp*  Did that count as lighthearted banter??  Do I get some cake icing now??

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I feel like some of the postings lately have gone from being helpful and trying to bring things to people's attention to telling people how they should think and act its became a bit much really.

 

Really?  Does expressing an opinion equate to telling other people that they should have the same opinion? Personally, I don't think so.

 

So, for example, a lot of Americans make general statements with "you" as the subject pronoun. And I guess that to some, it sounds like they are telling other people how to act. But to me, discussions on this Forum are based on the fundamental assumption that we all pay for a subscription, which to me means that we are all entitled to the same autonomy. Which means that, irrespective of how strongly something is worded, ultimately, all we are ding here is expressing our own opinion.

 

I suppose, since this is a public forum with lots of participants who are not native speakers of English, that instead of saying "You shouldn't be telling other people what to think," it would be clearer to say "In my opinion, no one has the right to tell anyone one else what to think." But none of us write that carefully all the time. Nor do I see any reason that we should.   

 

Yes, there has been a lot of nastiness and a lot of misunderstandings lately. But I for one would prefer not to walk on eggshells every time I have an opinion to express. 

 

I dont believe she said anything about expressing an opinion equating to telling people that they should think the same.. the word opinion is not even in her post at all..perhaps I have missed a previous thread this is referring to?  As for my post.. Im certainly not trying to tell anyone how to feel or act.  Thats kind of the point of this whole thing.. I dislike seeing people try and speak for everyone else.  As I am one of those "everyone else's."  Sometimes I agree with said opinion sometimes I dont. But I always dislike someone thinking that everyone else should change because their words or behaviors are not in line with the opinon of them or the mainstream.  And I always dislike anyone thinking they can speak for me or what I like.  

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I dont believe she said anything about expressing an opinion equating to telling people that they should think the same.. .  

 

No, she didn't. I am the one who used the word opinion. Did you find that confusing?

 

She said "telling people how they should think and act [has] became a bit much really." I said that I didn't think "expressing an opinion equates to telling other people they should have the same opinion." So, if it was not clear to you that I intended "telling other people they should have the same opinion" to be understood to mean the same thing as "telling other people they should think and act the same," then let me clarify:  I don't think that anyone has been trying to tell anyone how they should think. And as far as how they should act is concerned, yes, there has been some discussion to the effect that people should stay within the Community Rules.

 

But the point of what I wrote was that just because someone states an opinion in the Forum does not mean that they expect everyone to think and act like they do. So I disagree with Niblette that "it has become a bit much."  And, essentially, you and I are saying the same thing. 

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No, she didn't. I am the one who used the word opinion. Did you find that confusing?

 

She said "telling people how they should think and act [has] became a bit much really." I said that I didn't think "expressing an opinion equates to telling other people they should have the same opinion." So, if it was not clear to you that I intended "telling other people they should have the same opinion" to be understood to mean the same thing as "telling other people they should think and act the same," then let me clarify:  I don't think that anyone has been trying to tell anyone how they should think. And as far as how they should act is concerned, yes, there has been some discussion to the effect that people should stay within the Community Rules.

 

But the point of what I wrote was that just because someone states an opinion in the Forum does not mean that they expect everyone to think and act like they do. So I disagree with Niblette that "it has become a bit much."  And, essentially, you and I are saying the same thing. 

If I were confused I certainly would have said so. Minus the catty tone, I agree with ya.  I just dont see how what Niblette said contradicts either of our posts.  Let me be clear though.. I am not talking about people doing things that are against the law.. or TOS.  Reality is we live by rules and laws and are obligated to follow them even if we disagree with them.   

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Perhaps it has become to much for her. You guys are actually proving the original point of the OP lol.

 

She never said its become to much for everyone, just herself.

 

You aren't even making sense.

 

Of course she meant it had become too much for her. No where did I imply that she should not feel that way or not express that as her opinion. All I said was that I disagreed with her in the sense that it hasn't become to much for me. 

 

You twist people's words into things that they didn't say, and they you call them butthurt. LOL  But what the hell, knock yourself out. 

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Lical you are well entitled to your opinion the same as I am and anyone else.

But no where in your post have you actually stated your opinion on any of things that have been discussed in these forums as of late.

All you have done is voice an opinion on how they should express their own.

When I say where I feel most women, and here please note I have never said all women, it is my opinion that most women do think that way.

For example I have said that most new women players coming into 3DX would see the names and themes in the rooms list and have pointed out how I feel most would feel about it.

I think I even went as far as to say there would be a percentage wouldn't care, a percentage would be a little bothered and a percentage would be totally disgusted.

I will also say here that it is my opinion that I don't think there would be many women that would actually say they like seeing those room themes.

 

While I agree that people should definitely be able to play their own games the way they want, I think what we have been trying to point out in these forums is they can as long as what they do does not effect what others want from their games.

There are a lot of things go on in the game where that happens, people believing they have every right to do what ever they want doing things that effect anywhere from a small amount of other players to very much the whole player base.

 

So lets get to your point, you say we don't have a right to speak for all women and you are 100% correct.

But where have I done that, I have simply said my opinion on what I feel would be most womens view on some things.

I am sure you actually have a view on that yourself, like what do think would be the view of most women on some of the themes of the rooms that have been getting more and more regular in the game.

Personally (my opinion) just to make that clear, is that preventing people from being able to say things like "I believe that most women" is being very restrictive.

 

So what is your opinion on these rooms, and even further what is your opinion on how other women would see them?

Let us know the effect you feel those rooms will have on new women and men coming in the game, how it reflects on the game it self.

What is your opinion on so many guys playing as females in the game and letting everybody believe to actually saying they are actually females in real life. ?

 

You created this thread saying people should not speak for you, and that is fair enough, but don't you think you should then state what your opinions are more than just saying you feel people have a right to play how ever they want.

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Twiggy..  I dont know why you have taken what I have said as a direct insult to you.. nor do I care.  As for the saying, "most women" .. there are aprox.  3,710,295,643 women in the world.  Yaay google.. have you spoken to most of them, specifically about the topic in which you are speaking for most of them?  Most, being over half I would assume.  That is the only way for you to speak for "most" of them.  You can only speak for you,  I can only speak for me!!  I never spoke to someones right to voice or have their own opinion except to say that we are all entitled to ours and they wont ever all be the same.  I spoke to the tendencies of people to think they speak for others.  I do agree that people do horrible things to each other in game.. and it is my opinion that it shouldnt happen.  However in reality it does happen..  and except for in extreme cases  anyone can decide to no longer deal with it.   Through several different means actually.. iggy being of course the most obvious of them.  Im an adult  I can simply stop interacting with someone who is causing my game to be less than enjoyable as well... or I can simply leave the game altogether.  All of which is in my power and my choice.  

 

You are correct that I haven't voiced my opinion on most of these topics.. simply because I have no desire to debate opinions or try and change the minds of you or anyone else.  But since I was asked direct questions I will of course answer them:

 

what do think would be the view of most women on some of the themes of the rooms that have been getting more and more regular in the game..........

I haven't the slightest clue as what most women think of them..  I simply don't know that many women.  Even if I did, unless we have had a specific conversation about it I would not presume to know their opinions.  My guess would be that you would encounter some that were into them.. some that werent.. some that were indifferent.  

 

So what is your opinion on these rooms, and even further what is your opinion on how other women would see them?

Let us know the effect you feel those rooms will have on new women and men coming in the game, how it reflects on the game it self.

What is your opinion on so many guys playing as females in the game and letting everybody believe to actually saying they are actually females in real life. ?..........

Personally I find these rooms (of course Im assuming that you are talking bout the rooms from the threads that were deleted) gross.. I think that ppl with these fantasies most likely have deeper issues.  I stay away from these ppl.  I do not however think that i speak for anyone but myself in that opinion.  I can not speak as to how females will view them because I dont know the females in question and we have never spoken about this topic.  And finally... Males playing females.. I have stated before that I have expectations of the people who choose to interact with me.  I choose to interact with people who are honest with me.  I can not however insure that everyone who chooses to do so will be.  I can and will remove them from my existence if I find they havent been.  And then I will move right along.  But since there are so many men playing as women my opinion is obviously not shared by everyone,    I dont like to be lied to.. not because women dont like to be lied to.. or blondes dont like to be lied to.. or short ppl dont like to be lied to..  but because I dont like to be lied to.  

 

To your very last point.. no.  I dont believe that because I stated that no one speaks for me but me that I should feel any obligation to share my opinions if I dont so choose.  I did so above because I was asked a direct question.  Or questions as the case may be.  

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Take the threads as a joke, have a laugh on them, and move the fuck on, give a constructive opinion or reply on them, or let them die and go on, there is no need to be all salty and triggered about them.. I mean seriously, some of them were totally sarcastic and some people go all offended about anything.. SMH.

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