Authenticated API == No Room Stealing

[Athene]

Are you sure?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1283410/Police-carry-real-life-raid-searching-virtual-furniture-stolen-online-hotel.html

https://help.habbo.com/hc/en-us/articles/221643288-Some-of-my-furni-is-missing-got-stolen-What-can-I-do-

 

smile

 

There is nothing that can't be hacked, nothing that can't be stolen. 

 

 

Er... Maybe read the articles you linked? They did not "steal" it the same way everyone on 3dx is describing. They hacked the actual account and logged onto them then moved the items to a different place. Aka got their username and password.

 

 

1st link: "‘We believe the suspects could have hacked into other game users accounts and then removed items from the victim's hotel room to their own room."

 

2nd link: "account compromise, where someone has managed to break into your account and stolen the items/spent your credits."

 

My question still stands.

[chloe]

Er... Maybe read the articles you linked? They did not "steal" it the same way everyone on 3dx is describing. They hacked the actual account and logged onto them then moved the items to a different place. Aka got their username and password.

 

 

1st link: "‘We believe the suspects could have hacked into other game users accounts and then removed items from the victim's hotel room to their own room."

 

2nd link: "account compromise, where someone has managed to break into your account and stolen the items/spent your credits."

 

My question still stands.

 

 

You said  habbo hotel is a browwer game, right? 3dx is not, so its hard to compare. And also beside that both seems not to have much in common beside the chat functionality.

[MeiLing]

Er... Maybe read the articles you linked? They did not "steal" it the same way everyone on 3dx is describing. They hacked the actual account and logged onto them then moved the items to a different place. Aka got their username and password.

 

 

1st link: "‘We believe the suspects could have hacked into other game users accounts and then removed items from the victim's hotel room to their own room."

 

2nd link: "account compromise, where someone has managed to break into your account and stolen the items/spent your credits."

 

My question still stands.

 

I read... you said before, it was not possible. Hacking is one of the many solutions you have to steal content. All depends on the client. Can you indicate one, only one I don't ask more, that have no backdoor; no leak, no vulnerabilty? You just have to identify the right to reach your goal...

[Chilles]

Many of you are afraid that the world data will be copied. But it is impossible to copy charisma and talent to host parties, entertain people, it is impossible to steal your taste for music and the manner of communication.

 

Everything in 3DXChat/Internet can be copied, include Taste of Music, personalities, and last but not least DJ Mixes of other artists

At the end is there currently nothing possible to be an individual human or player

 

 

It may seem to be the most obvious first glance solution, but then we should think of a reverse situation — when someone holding a grudge on someone else is trying to abuse the system by claiming a fake theft. To be able to verify the theft, the server would need to keep a full history of each single world server upload with a respective timestamp so that a diff comparison could be performed later "in court". It would bloat the server data storage requirements enormously, and still is not error prone due to the fact that a user can work with offline files and the theft may happen even without the server involvement (well, in such case the claim can probably just be discarded, but it still does not solve the data amount issue).

 

 

Agree with you there is nothing possible to show someone as true (first) Artist of user created content and about this would a rule be useless

The only things we know is someone did sometime create the content in 3DXChat/ for 3DXChat.

[Anaganda]

 

 

Many of you are afraid that the world data will be copied. But it is impossible to copy charisma and talent to host parties, entertain people, it is impossible to steal your taste for music and the manner of communication.

So, a shy and non outgoing person, shouldn't try to show their work?

Why did you introduce WE, if all that matters is Charisma and music list? those matter, but the talent of people to build doesn't?

The big update you guys introduced and made a fucken big fuss about it... and that's what you say? that what we do with it iiis meh, cause the only thing that matters is Charisma bla bla bla.

If you don't have a solution to the public upset about this problem, please don't make things worse!

[Chilles]

So, a shy and non outgoing person, shouldn't try to show their work?

Why did you introduce WE, if all that matters is Charisma and music list? those matter, but the talent of people to build doesn't?

The big update you guys introduced and made a fucken big fuss about it... and that's what you say? that what we do with it iiis meh, cause the only thing that matters is Charisma bla bla bla.

If you don't have a solution to the public upset about this problem, please don't make things worse!

 

In my opinion shows the talent for building exactly the same part to be an unique and individual person like the non-faked talent for entertaining

Now we are again at this point, as first the countless RP (Fake) DJ's and now is it also possible to fake (ofc RP) a talented Architect/Builder  

 

Soon will be everyone a talented Builder ^^

[Athene]

I read... you said before, it was not possible. Hacking is one of the many solutions you have to steal content. All depends on the client. Can you indicate one, only one I don't ask more, that have no backdoor; no leak, no vulnerabilty? You just have to identify the right to reach your goal...

 

I'm confused why you think hacking someone's username/password is the same as copying a room on 3dx? I'm pretty sure they are not related and you're just making this conversation even more complicated for no reason.

 

@chloe, I haven't even gone to the site in years, prob since I was like 15 haha. I just remember playing the crap out of that game and I'm sure things have changed over time. But I know from what I remember of it that it's actually very similar to 3dx. 3dx is just an adult playground instead x)

[Sentra]

Athene, I'm not familiar with that game, but it sounds like you have to buy the stuff you have in your hotel, so the game probably has protections in place that make it so you have to buy the stuff you use in your place. A hacker could probably get the data about the layout and placement of furniture and stuff, but they probably couldn't use it as their own unless they also hacked the purchase or actually purchased all the items used to create it. It could probably be done but maybe nobody has put the effort in to actually make it happen.

 

In 3dx, there is no purchasing or unlocking of items we use in rooms. We can create freely using all the items available and as many as we want. That gives builders a lot of freedom, but it makes it easier to steal rooms.

 

Also, the feature of saving rooms and loading them.. a really nice feature but it definitely made room stealing a whole lot simpler I'm sure. That Habbo game probably doesn't have a feature like this.. to save an entire room to a file and be able to load that file into the room editor. This is probably the feature that opened the gates to room stealing here in 3dx.

 

I think the best thing for now is for the 3dx community to just agree that room stealing is bad and that we aren't cool with it. If someone steals a room, we should tell them and make sure they know that the community doesn't like that. If they brush it off and don't care, then we announce the room stealer in WC and all the builders or people who care about room stealing can go and put this person on ignore. Maybe even have a running blacklist somewhere of known room stealers.. Idk.

 

Also, modders should help out by not making it easy or providing tools to steal rooms. Make the room stealers figure it out on their own.. don't give them tools to do it. I only recently heard about this issue. Is this a Pandora thing? Is it giving access to people's saved room files on the server or something? Why did this only just now become a thing? Is one of the DLLs or Pandora or something making it easy for people to do this now?

[Sentra]

@gizmo

 

What if room files were only ever stored or loaded from the server? And to load a room, you would have to have the id of the creator? If there were no loading from files on the client pc into the world editor, only loading from the server behind an id check, wouldn't this make stealing rooms a lot more difficult? We would lose the feature to share room files, but we could get that back if you built a "Share" feature into the game that would grant access to the id(s) of the person(s) the room had been shared with. Those people would then see that room as an option when loading a room. They would see a menu list of the room files they have access to on the server, and this would be the ONLY way to load a room into the editor.

 

It seems to me that the ability to load a room into the editor from a local file is really the root of this problem.

[Guest Mulan]

At the end of the day the only entity that “owns the property” is SexGameDevil. As gizmo alluded to, you can copy the most impressive room, but if you have no charisma, no ability to plan a party and no ability to provide good music and a good atmosphere then the impressive room you copied will be empty anyway. Even before the hacked DLL’s in the older client became widespread and easy to use, I remember seeing a party in a non hacked room 1 apartment with over 100 people.

 

Personally, I can’t understand why someone would spend hours, days, weeks, or months building something that is property of SexGameDevil. If I was going to spend that sort of time decorating, I would find it a lot more rewarding buying some paint and paintbrush to paint my real house. Each to their own I guess.

 

I don’t think you can compare it to something like SL. On SL there is an actual marketplace where people can sell their creations, therefore it makes sense to take legal action.

 

The only thing you can do is just have some common decency. If you like a room then ask the host if you can use it, under the possible condition that you give the original creator credit. They might share it with you, they might have even shared it already on the forum. If not then maybe suggest that you do a party together, you organise the DJs and advertise in the forum and they can host the room. If the answer to all those is no then take inspiration from the room. Or you could be a dick, steal it and deal with the consequences of being a dick.

[RRomul]

If they brush it off and don't care, then we announce the room stealer in WC and all the builders or people who care about room stealing can go and put this person on ignore. Maybe even have a running blacklist somewhere of known room stealers.. Idk.

 

I agree with you in many ways. But this is a really bad idea.

 

What if the room is just look very similar to the original? What if the author of the room gave permission to copy it and after that he lies that he did not gave it before? And then someone uses World Chat and shows the screen with the "fact" of copying ... when in fact the rooms are just looks similar or author was given permission to copy. But everyone already blocked him for no reason. That's why I will ignore all announcers in WC about block "room stealers". It's just a bad method.

[JessicaX]

... And even if you block any room stealing from a file - someone can just build the same room in Editor by stealing your room design or room plan or anything else. It will just make stealing more difficult.

 

And don't call it "stealing" - your room does not disappear after steal. And it is not your private property. All public rooms is a "common property" and all copyrighting belongs to SexGameDevils. Developers can just copy your room too without your permision.

 

So by this logic.. we should remove speed limits, because if people want to drive fast they will anyhow. 

 

See how that doesn't work?

[JessicaX]

In my opinion shows the talent for building exactly the same part to be an unique and individual person like the non-faked talent for entertaining

Now we are again at this point, as first the countless RP (Fake) DJ's and now is it also possible to fake (ofc RP) a talented Architect/Builder  

 

Soon will be everyone a talented Builder ^^

 

And most people don't seem to care who steals or fakes anything. So all of this is futile. 

[Chilles]

And most people don't seem to care who steals or fakes anything. So all of this is futile. 

 

I said one day in the past... Is the try to be a creative person in an 3D RPMMO Game true creativity!?

Sure there will be some but for the larger part it is only RP and a part of an game.

 

It's also no fault it's just the nature of the game. And now this also concerns room builders.

[JessicaX]

I said one day in the past... Is the try to be a creative person in an 3D RPMMO Game true creativity!?

Sure there will be some but for the larger part it is only RP and a part of an game.

 

It's also no fault it's just the nature of the game. And now this also concerns room builders.

 

It should not matter where the content is created or what it created for. Its disturbing that so many people turn a blind eye to such things. 

[RRomul]

So by this logic.. we should remove speed limits, because if people want to drive fast they will anyhow. 

 

See how that doesn't work?

 

This is called "demagoguery". Copying and speed limits have nothing in common.

 

Anyone can copy your room in game using simple method or not. Like everyone can copy your avi model and clothes combinations. Lets block avi copying too then? Because why not? You are not upset because someone looking like your clone with almost exactly name?

 

You have lost the truth. You are not the creators of the editor. All combinations of rooms from the editor are already taken by the authors of the editor. If you making a new phone for Apple as a many other workers it doen't mean that only you can sell this phone now and Apple can't and they must listen you and give you all power only because you are so upset abouth this.

[chloe]

This is called "demagoguery". Copying and speed limits have nothing in common.

 

Anyone can copy your room in game using simple method or not. Like everyone can copy your avi model and clothes combinations. Lets block avi copying too then? Because why not? You are not upset because someone looking like your clone with almost exactly name?

 

You have lost the truth. You are not the creators of the editor. All combinations of rooms from the editor are already taken by the authors of the editor. If you making a new phone for Apple as a many other workers it doen't mean that only you can sell this phone now and Apple can't and they must listen you and give you all power only because you are so upset abouth this.

So every letter written with MS Word is owned by Microsoft, every Art done with Photoshop is owned by Adobe... Lol

 

And we all work for 3dx.. LMAO

[JessicaX]

This is called "demagoguery". Copying and speed limits have nothing in common.

 

Anyone can copy your room in game using simple method or not. Like everyone can copy your avi model and clothes combinations. Lets block avi copying too then? Because why not? You are not upset because someone looking like your clone with almost exactly name?

 

You have lost the truth. You are not the creators of the editor. All combinations of rooms from the editor are already taken by the authors of the editor. If you making a new phone for Apple as a many other workers it doen't mean that only you can sell this phone now and Apple can't and they must listen you and give you all power only because you are so upset abouth this.

 

No matter what the devs do, people will find a way around it and still copy rooms. This is true. But that's not a good reason to let it happen freely. They may as well add the option in the UI with a new button "steal room".  We are talking about people who spend weeks and sometimes months of their life to try and make our little world here better for everyone. Something like this happens and it shocks me that so many people are so care free about it. 

 

I guess we will just agree to disagree. I firmly believe that if someone creates something, regardless of where they created it and what the content is for... They should have some type of protection against people taking 20 seconds to copy it. I don't understand how so many people can think this is ok. 

 

it's just a sex game!   The only people who say this are people who stay for the 1st month and are never heard from again. The people who generate revenue for 3dx are the people who are invested into this community. if its only a sex game, why did they release the world editor when it has nothing to do with sex? Because they know exactly where their money comes from. 

 

It's pretty difficult to justify this in any way. 

[Anaganda]

I am not a computer wiz by any means nor am I claiming to have the ultimate solution... this is just a simple thought...

If the devs enforce a rule in the rule book/tos or whatever, that stealing a room without the creators consent can result in some form of punishment, ban or whatever works.

 

Then maybe some sort of uploading room data on the server with a date, or on some part of the website, that then the people in charge can go and check when a person reports someone stealing their room? but I believe that I read that this can be hard due to some server overload or something....

 

in case the uploading data to server is a sure no go, a work around could be that people who create rooms can post pics of them here on the forums,(in a designated thread) before they open the room publicly, consider it registering your rooms or something... those pics can be then used as evidence that the room is theirs in case the room resurfaced later by another person? and person who posts a complaint that their room was stolen should be asked to provide photos of the room when it was opened by someone else and the link to their forum post that contains the photos of it. if people failed to provide such link or simply didn't upload photos of their room, then it's their fault and they have no one but them selves to blame.

 

ofc I get that doing this will take the thrill of opening room and hearing comments of the wow'd people as they see it for the first time.

 

also on the other side, if the person didn't upload anything and his/her room got stolen, then the thief uploaded before them... then the original creator might find themselves on the wrong end of the bat.

 

well... just a thought.

[Keely Kat]

Guys, you should understand that for an experienced modder it's not difficult to copy your world data when the game loads it from the server.

Someone speaks about 2 completely different formats? Modders will quickly create a format converter. They will download the data in one format, then convert it to a readable format.

 

Many of you are afraid that the world data will be copied. But it is impossible to copy charisma and talent to host parties, entertain people, it is impossible to steal your taste for music and the manner of communication.

 

those things you speak of are forms of expression unique to an individual but the creation of a room is no less an expression of who they are and in many cases takes longer and more effort than assembling a collection of music, or promoting and hosting a room.   The issue for the game will be that if creative theft becomes rampant enough then all those builders will cease to build and the pretty little editor will sit idle because you are unwilling to provide any protections for those people who are doing your work for you in providing amazing locations.

[observer101]

Just because we can't find a solution it doesn't mean that there isn't one.
-Andrew Wiles

[Sage Stoner]

those things you speak of are forms of expression unique to an individual but the creation of a room is no less an expression of who they are and in many cases takes longer and more effort than assembling a collection of music, or promoting and hosting a room.   The issue for the game will be that if creative theft becomes rampant enough then all those builders will cease to build and the pretty little editor will sit idle because you are unwilling to provide any protections for those people who are doing your work for you in providing amazing locations.

 

I know this is going to upset a lot of people who think that rooms are entitled to protection. But I would submit for your consideration the idea that all the things created here are, in fact, very possibly in the public domain and therefore available for use to anyone. Now, none of us here are lawyers, so I am not going to argue this point. I am just presenting it here as something to be considered.

 

According to https://www.newmediarights.org/business_models/artist/what_can%E2%80%99t_be_copyrighted

 

Mechanical or utilitarian parts cannot be copyrighted

 

Objects with useful functions like “lamps, bathroom sinks, clothing, and computer monitors” are unprotected. Many designs of consumer products (like distinct-looking coffeemakers) therefore aren’t copyrightable. 

 

All that said, this rule starts getting more complicated when you learn the major exception to it: “Features that can be identified separately from, and are capable of existing independently of, the utilitarian aspects of the article,” can be protected by copyright.

 

For example, a truck cannot be copyrighted, but a painting on its side can be copyrighted, because you can separate the truck from the truck’s practical, functional features. This is also true of clothing: a design or a cut of a skirt can’t be copyrighted, but the print (for example, drawings of flowers) on the skirt can be copyrighted. This even includes entire costumes, because Halloween costumes do serve the same utilitarian purpose as all other clothing: to keep the wearer from being naked when they walk outside. 

 

 

Did you know that, for example, the interior and exterior design of automobiles cannot be copyrighted?  Same reason as costumes and other clothing: the parts of a car body are utilitarian and therefore not subject to copyright protection. I know that a lot of people "think" that if you create something and record it in concrete form, it automatically receives copyright protection. And while this is largely true, there are a lot of surprising exceptions. Again, I am not a lawyer and I am presenting this information only as food for thought. But this is why I think that "marking" your creations, as discussed in another thread, is the only real way that creators have of identifying and protecting their work in a virtual world. 

 

One other consideration:  The worlds you create here have no market value. There might occasionally be someone willing to pay or barter to have something created, but in general there is no market for these works. So the actual damage inflicted when someone uses your designs without permission is zero. Things might be different if there was an in-game economy like on SecondLife or IMVU. But as it stands, like it or not, there is no real damage inflicted when someone "steals" your work.