Music in public locations is bugged again?

[DarrenD]

Maybe I misunderstood your point but the software is there to provide the ability to stream but the license is on the person using the stream. For example, I like to use music in my live streams on Insta. However, I cannot because I do not have the license. Instagram will ban me if reported (know people who were) because they do not want to risk liability it is the same reason that they remove videos uploaded with copyrighted content immediately.

 

Building this into the game, it seems makes 3DX not better than a site like "MP3Skull" who has to pay up 22 million for allowing users to rip music. I'm sure the team has seen this thread and if they allow this, they could become liable. Why risk it? Why even go that far to create something in the game that allows it? The difference between using a program on your computer to record the song for the rip, something like Audacity is a bit different than ripping it straight from the game. Recording your favorite show on your DVR is a bit different than using a bit torrent to download it.

3dxchat is not different from for example a browser in that regards. A browser - like 3dxchat - allows you to stream music, among many other things. Like a browser, 3dxchat's main purpose is certainly not to stream music. It is a nice feature to have music in game but that's it. 3dxchat would still remain very playable without music in game. Nobody would sue browser vendors for building in streaming capabilities, that get hacked my users.

 

MP3Skull's main (any only) purpose on the other hand was exactly to allow music download.

 

But, as I said, this "feature" do download music in 3dx is certainly not worth any headaches, may they even be extremely remote.

[Camden]

By that same token Instagram, a photo sharing site would have no reason to police copyrighted music on its site. It is usable without music. Wasn't built for streaming or music sharing but still holds culpability in ensuring that their users do not violate the DMCA. I'm not going to further argue this, we won't agree. If 3DX let's it happen then we'll see what happens to 3DX. I'm told that the game is growing. It may be overlooked for a time but at some point it will get noticed. People post party vids all the time on YouTube. Know what? People have been sued for using music in their Youtube tutorials. But hey people are free to do what they want.

[Woodstock]

Experiencing the same + hearing the same music is often integral to common experiences. 

[Veronique]

Updated Information

 

 

This is no updated information but the attempt to forward the users of this forum into your forum where the hacks are advertised... 

 

"I believe that X is working on..." is like if I would state: I believe that the devs will make 3dx great again... 

 

but as you asked for feedback on the hacking in your link: Don't hack.

 

Thank you.

[Shanti]

I think you don't understand, you are actually making things worse.

 

It's not about who is ok with their music being downloaded... it's about it shouldn't be downloaded in game at all. It is making 3DX liable.

 

I went through the different threads and requested suggestions... most is cringe worthy and messing with datas that should be left alone...  full online lists, researches on people not in FL, time stamps for last online, pop ups when someone logs on, music download, pictures download.. most is pushing the boundaries way too far for this game.

 

As I said prior, mods were a welcome addition for the basic needs that 3DX should but isn't providing : proper home editor, character customisations...

But unfortunately, he's focusing his energy on everything, except that, as shown below :

 

Now, For us Builders...

Stop holding your breath....the room editor part of Extender is a LONG way off.

We will not be building in 2.0 with Alex's mod anytime soon. Sorry

 

The Home editor is currently on hold until I finish with other stuff, so I can't tell much about it now.

 

Basically a baby trying to run before even attempting to walk first.

Not only that, but this all will probably help wreck the little good we actually had with the mods.

 

PS : very bad call to have posted the link here.

[DarrenD]

I didn't want to comment further on this thread, but well, I somehow have to once more ...

 

First thanks Sayon for posting the thread here, because this has allowed at least me understanding what all this fuzz is about.

 

Second, I now understand the many concerns that have been voiced here about this extension making things worse for all of us.

 

... the download button, well ok, you can argue about this. In the end it is the extension's developer that will ultimately be held responsible for any copyright infringements that occur from that. And I believe "the developer" is very easily identifiable in that case.

 

My very personal red line is anything privacy related. When someone starts to play with users' intel, I will do anything to actively fight that. After all, this is still a sex game and yes, there is sensitive data in it that most - if not all - people don't want to see in unauthorized hands (and certainly not in the hands of a modder).

 

I personally have no issues with popups indicating whenever I or my friends go online, but maybe others have? What if users log on, see that some of their friends that they don't want to see right now are online and log off immediately or switch to an alt? No need to say this is "unfair" to those friends, because it is not anyone to judge on that decision. But the extension makes this visible and even worse, because it's hidden in an unofficial extension, this even makes it visible only for some "exclusive" users.

 

I personally have no issues with being included in a listing with the users in a room, but maybe others have?

 

No, sometimes only because you can implement things doesn't mean that you actually should implement them without seeking further consent.

 

Given the high tensions caused by this "extension", I too see the danger of the devs disabling all mods (and yes, that is trivial to do).

[Nikki]

Given the high tensions caused by this "extension", I too see the danger of the devs disabling all mods (and yes, that is trivial to do).

 

This! As much as I like black socks and fancy prints on pants I would love to see this happening. Encrypt the games code for gods sake and make this place safe again. All of this went to far. Hacks have to go. Period.

[AnyNameWillDo]

I'm not sure where the debate resides with this issue. It really is very simple: hacks which enable laws to be broken are unacceptable. Period. I'm a big fan of the room modding but would gladly pass all that up to stop this getting out-of-hand. Even if the download hack rests in the control of the content provider, it's still a leak from the game's integrity, and can we be sure that the hacks are secure and can't be tweaked by others to become more invasive?

 

There are so many layers to this. Firstly, the download concept has pissed off our music providers, which is bad for the community and, ironically, has removed from the game the very content this hack was meant to make available. Secondly, any of us who have worked in business know that when powers-that-be finally decide to act on an issue, it's usually forthright and extensive, so don't be surprised by the voracity of SGD's response to this, should they choose to do so. Thirdly, who owns and runs this game? Who appointed this panel of hackers to shape the nature of our game?

 

Now we have an arms race, where people seem to be out-hacking each other without moderation. I read plans to extend the ability to know who is online beyond a friend list and other similar alterations. Well, if you are digging that deep into the code of the game, who is drawing the line in terms of ethics and in-game security? Those of us who have been here a while will know of the loophole which was closed to stop people seeing other players' friends list and the names of alts and I know people who were hounded out of the game by players messing with their lives via this hack, until it was dealt with. So there is history to support that flaws in the code of the game, once exploited, can be counter-productive.

 

I'm not saying the people who are developing hacks have bad intentions, I really believe their motivations are sound but this is a Pandora's box being opened and I sense it's time to take stock regarding where all this is heading.

 

Put it this way, as of now, I want a standard game with music streamed by DJs and fuck the rest because this is about to go too far...

[Xanar]

It's just not fair that one person modifies the DLL so he/she can download songs without permission and others have to pay the price for it.

I think some may agree that Rochi and Alex did a great job with the DLL. It allows us to build our dreamhouse and customize our Avatar like we want.

But that's it. The DLL is a hack wich isn't officially allowed by the devs.

 

And there are features that we don't need or a bugged as hell.

For example the ghost-feature in Rochis DLL. It can be used as exploit (Won't go further into details)

 

And soon we need to download pose-packs because the DLL of XYZ allows new positions, another DLL adds new clothing. And that will seperate the community into small groups.

 

But now 3DX is suffering from rooms wich takes ages to load. A friend of mine once said "I didn't buy a gaming PC to play 3DX on low settings".

People open public rooms like the Yacht or the NC as a sex room while the original rooms stay empty.

 

Now we have ads during the music, some people aren't even able to hear the radio thanks to a region lock.

[analiza]

I want the Music back... I have no Music in Sin

[Chilles]

Personal I've since a long time the opinion they should work hand in hand with the modders

Some ideas and functions are good things but the functions should be considered more closely between pro and contra productive...

 

To allow tacit all kind of moddings will destroy early or later 3DXChat.

If they don't want any kind of external modifications should it easily be possible to block external moddings but I've the feeling there was never a try to block it...

 

For example the shared Public Locations, I ask myself since a long time about the sense to split one Location in many different parts

At least there are the same Members at this shared public Locations and the source Locations stays empty

 

 

3DXChat, The Developers some Modders and User content creators has a lot potential hand in hand but the way of now reaches only the opposite

[Nikki]

The way to hell was paved with good intentions. I think the same applies to the modding here.

[AlexRyder]

All right, this topic has started to become blown out of proportions pretty fast.

I suppose I could rant on the topic a lot, but it's probably pointless, so, I'll be short

 

• First, I can see the point in some of the objections posted here, but the only thing this download button does is simplify the action from 5 mouse clicks (pretty much literally, Google is your friend) to one.
• Second, it's just a tool, there can't be legal repercussions for having a tool on its own, only for it's misuse. Somehow I don't see multimedia players, stream downloaders and stuff like that being sued for mere existence, they're completely legit products. Now, people who wish to download streams to broadcast them as their own is a whole other issue (seriously, wtf? It's just stupid and most likely people will notice), but if it's their goal, I don't really see any way to prevent this with the technology used.
• Third, the 3dx devs can't be held responsible for 3rd party modifications to their product.

 

Anyways, there will be a checker next to the stream input field allowing the broadcaster to decide if they wish to allow downloads or not. Obviously, it will be disallowed by default, that also means that any streams from unmodded clients also won't be downloadable.
Same goes for public location streams since they're Chilles' private streams and he doesn't want that. But shouldn't those streams be payed for by the devs anyway? Looks kinda... cheap?   

 

But seriously? Disabling the streams because of the mere possibility they could be recorded whenever and if such feature may exist in the future? That's just ridiculous, reminds me of that episode of South Park about music piracy   
Pretty sure those 5 people who have the wip mod build have nothing better to do than record all audio streams in the game 24/7. With the game 

 

As for the other stuff that has been mentioned here.

It's not possible get user's emails, account and credit card data from the game, the banking info is not even handled by the 3dx servers.
It's not possible to get another player's friend and ignore lists without the knowledge of their email and/or password (at least without some server hacking, which may be totally possible, but is too far from my areas of expertise and interest), and why would I want mess with that data anyway?
Friend online notifications exist in all Internet messengers.

 

 

Anyways, the devs will have the final word in all that.

[Shanti]

Anyways, the devs will have the final word in all that.

 

Cute kitten

[AlexRyder]

 

Cute kitten

 

And here I thought the ultimate answer was 42... ​

[Cordelia]

I used the dll mod in v1, to make some alternative clothing (which is what the devs should be spending time doing/enabling).

I gave it up when I moved to v2 as I was concerned that it was still viable in the "new" system and considered it a security issue.

I'm as guilty as anyone for promoting the room mods, by way of posting photos of them on the forum.

However, a friend from Second Life summed this whole dll hack thingy up by rofl'ing when I explained to them that the room where we were dancing was composed of hundreds of coffee tables, individual light cubes, etc.

They're right, it really is a farce.

[Guest Twiggy]

I have been around people in the music industry for some years now.

3 artists rely on me to make their music available for sale over the Internet, mainly wanting it available on iTunes.

To do that you must go through what iTunes calls an agent, I use CDBaby.

When you load songs or albums into CDBaby you have several options, to have it available for Digital sales which puts it in several online stores like iTunes.

There is a box you either leave checked or un checked to say you want to have or not have it available for streaming services.

One artist has 3 albums and several single songs, and he gets quite a few streams of his songs.

The last 3 times I have added songs for him we have un checked the box for streaming services.

We did that because we had noticed that for over 42,000 streams he received $1.72.

Recently we looked and saw he now has over 150,000 streams and has received a huge $4.50.

.003 cents per stream is what they pay, that is both iTunes and Spotify and Spotify seems to have a minimum amount of plays required each month before they pay anything.

Most of that $4.50 is from iTunes.

 

On top of that when you un check that box it is also meant to have it so YouTube does not include that song in their what they call music topic, where they post hi definition sound versions of any artists songs that have been made available for streaming.

But even his songs where we did not make them available for streaming have been put in there.

He is meant to get payment for each time it is played in this youtube music topic post, we have not seen any payment from youtube as yet.

YouTube applies advertising to all these music topic posts of songs where they get the payment for the advertising, not the artist.

 

Sales of his stuff is very minimal, has not even got back what it costs to put them up yet after more than 2 years now.

 

The thing is artists are being severely ripped off in the industry, more so now than ever.

There is no incentive for new artists to make recordings and offer their stuff for sale, and that has become common knowledge right through the industry now.

I sing and use to dream about one day maybe having songs on iTunes.

But when all you hear from people who are already there is how much of a waste of time it is, you loose incentive.

It takes a lot of hard work to get there and you need to feel there is at least some chance it will be worth it.

So I like a lot of others I know don't bother any more, the best we can hope for is to be able to make money from gigs.

 

Here in Australia and I would say it would be the same everywhere, the music industry is shrinking really quickly.

Music tutors are going out of business as less and less people are willing to try get into the industry.

The small indie labels are almost all now promoters, the ones that are still there that is.

They have had to go to other things or go broke.

 

Many of the online streaming services do not even make money, they don't get enough return to cover their costs.

They make their money from seeking investors and have been finding it easy to get them.

Soundcloud would every year get some 50 to 60 million from investors and that is how they survive.

iTunes does make money, but from sales mainly.

Spotify the last time I looked was loosing money, but staying afloat through investors.

I wonder what will happen when the investors stop.

 

So people think twice before you download illegally, what you are actually helping to do.

The industry is already at a stage where they supply us only the music they want to.

[AHT]

Well it's very sad some of our community no longer hear music in public locations. In the past I believe Achilles and Ash - sorry if I omitted others - would identify streams we could use. I think they no-longer do this. Which is a shame, but also highlights how grateful we should have been to them at the time, though I guess identifying streams that will be available to everybody/most people here is not easy - and that's not including taste - though, hey, 60s garage is a may zing and Italo Disco - woweeee! (Oh and let's not forget that 70s disco totally sucks)

[Chilles]

Well I think to share the music ripping problem with other stream providers wouldn't a fair choices.
It's also for other online radios not a easy business and they doesn't make enough money to handle the costs.

On the contrary is it needed to ask before each Radio Stream Provider to use ther music as entaining sources.

 

Trust me if I say to provide a online Radio is a very costly hobby! The most ppl listen only the music without to think about costs for but the truth is each song costs Money + Licence costs and each listener costs also money + costs for Server host + cost for Server Software etc etc...

[Nikki]

Yeah too bad that most people tend to forget its more then just renting a radioserver for 4,99$ per month.

 

The radioserver is ofc the cheapest piece of the puzzle. And of course if one wouldnt buy any tracks and dont pay license fee's, would say this:

 

"Its not really a big deal to set up some radio servers for the public locations" as I have heard it in the past from some individuals.

 

Pirate Radio is always cheap. If you want to stay legit it aint!

[Chilles]

Yeah too bad that most people tend to forget its more then just renting a radioserver for 4,99$ per month.

"Its not really a big deal to set up some radio servers for the public locations"

 

 

No problem

4,99$ sounds for Stream Servers without warranty of upload/provided Listeners (to write unlimited Listeners is for all server Providers possible but they don't give you a warranty for because the Limit is always the supported Internet Upload of the Host) 

 

For 4,99$ I could also sell 10 or 15 of my Stream Servers to make some extra money ^^ (include support and warranty of stability but without warranty for provided Listeners ^^ )

 

There is a reason why big Online Radio Channels never use a rented Music Stream Server

[Woodstock]

If cost is an issue and the music streaming was a donation to the community, wouldnt it make sense to create a patreon (or similar) site.

[Nikki]

The costs aren't the issue.

 

Some people thought it is not enough to have ad free music in decent quality to listen to. There had to be a "feature" developed so stream contents could be bulk downloaded for whatever reason...

 

That was the issue.

[AnyNameWillDo]

The solution to this seems pretty simple to me. Whatever differing views people hold about the value of the music download option, remove it. Apparently according to Alex, it only facilitates something a reasonably savvy computer user could already do themselves, and the quality of the stream isn't that great anyway. So removing it would be no great loss but it might win back the confidence of the DJs, and get us our music back. Hacking the .dll is intended to make 3DX better - and current hacks show this is the case - but if the download option has the opposite effect, what's the point keeping it?

[Chilles]

Costs was never a problem

I had so and also so the fixed costs each month. The stream stations and the stream Software (Centova Cast reseller License) are my ownership this costs me not one cent and this things will be there a lifetime.

The invested Time (weekly many hours) well let us call it a hobby I did it gladly...

I agree it wasn't possible to add each month endless new content because I've no money printer but after some years is there a huge library with more content as the mostly average Online Radio Stations

 

Well I think the most don't understand my concerns and for the most isn't music a big thing but for me is it the world, it's my money and I do everything possible to protect it.

Personal for me is the unlocked Ripping Functions of the BASS audio library the security issues and as long this problem is there are my streams off or in use somewhere.