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#1 Guest_Twiggy_*

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 02:36 AM

Hey guys,

I thought I would throw this idea in here to see what people think.

 

I have for some time now been looking into the different software used to make and capture animations, how they work and what can be done with them.

French touch has managed to supply animations that are now in the game using a format that the game requires.

FrenchTouch uses MotionBuilder for animations which supplies the correct format to be used in the game.

The problem there for many of us is MotionBuilder is very expensive.

There is other software available for much less, some even free, where animations can be made.

The problem there is the format they use is not compatible, but, using MotionBuilder they can be converted.

So animations made in Daz3D, iclone and others can be used if FrenchTouch or anyone else that has MotionBuilder is willing to convert them for us.

 

My idea here is to create like a think tank first, to find ways and people willing to learn to do animations.

We then help each other learn and start creating animations for the game.

 

For now it is just an idea and I am looking for feedback.

 


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#2 Kaili

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 03:07 AM

Look at Blender. It is an open source version of that software, supported by many engine makers, including Unity, Unreal and Cryengine.

 

https://www.blender.org/


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#3 Ashbash

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 04:48 AM

There are a lot out there Twiggy. Blender for one as Kaili mentioned, there is also some others which are available for free if you are in an educational environment learning it.

 

Autodesk do a lot of educational versions of their software free of charge if you have an educational registered email. So if you are serious about learning animations and stuff in an educational format, it's definitely worth checking out.

 

http://www.autodesk....ee-software/all


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#4 Guest_Twiggy_*

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 06:58 AM

Hey I know there is Blender, and also quite a few others.

Daz3D and others also support Unity and Daz3D is also produced by Autodesk.

The thing is they all have different skeletons and only one is supported by 3DXChat.

That I believe to be the standard skeleton created in 3D studio max, Maya or MotionBuilder.

All the others create a slightly different skeleton, not 100% sure about Blender as I haven't actually tried it but from what I understand it has the same problem.

You can transfer any of the characters from any of them into Unity complete with animations, some are a little difficult but most will work.

The problem is you try to use an animation created for say Daz3D characters on one made in 3D Studio and it will not work properly, the skeleton is different.

But as I said, using MotionBuilder you can transfer animations from one to another.

Although there are other software packages that claim to do the same, they do not work properly and the transferred animations very rarely come out right.

 

The idea I have tried to present here is to see if people that are interested in learning how to do animations and perhaps creating some for 3DXChat.

I feel there is likely others that have got into animation as I have, or some that may want to just try it and if we were all to get together and help each other could be something really cool.


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#5 Shanti

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 07:08 AM

That's a very good idea. I'm sure great things could come out of collaborations, especially since there are lot of talented people in our community :D

 

 

 

Just a thought, maybe you can try and reach out to Goose as well, he might be able to help or not, I can't speak for him. But from what I saw, he does some pretty great stuff :)

 

 

P7RN26pH.gifUNRNEvl5.gif
Ok7DvMFE.gifOAObXeuQ.gif
rRs47YmU.gifxgohG5Hb.gif
bIYBEgba.gifCHgbcoaX.gif
WvER91Wu.gifHNmfSLMw.gif


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#6 Epi

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 07:34 AM

Maya LT is reasonable on subscription and can do the animations with whatever skeleton you need.

 

Unity is really good at mapping the animations to any skeleton, and you can definately import from DAZ, Poser or iClone without too many problems in Unity.

 

Also 3DExchange is could be used for transferring animations from one skeleton to another.


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#7 Guest_Twiggy_*

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 07:51 AM

3DXChange is one I did try to transfer animations from skeleton to skeleton, having tried quite a few times it just didn't seem to work properly.

It is ok on simple moves but when they get a little complicated like faster dance moves they seem to go all over the place.

Reading up in forums lots of people seem to say the only real good way to do it with a high level of success is with MotionBuilder.

But if there is anyone that has had success with 3DXChange I would be really interested in talking with them.

3DXChange I will say is great for transferring models/characters and getting them into unity, but I am pretty sure they still use the DAZ skeleton.



#8 SkyDiver

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 04:18 PM

blender is a bitch to learn...but it's a freaking awesome software


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#9 Cheyenne

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 04:23 PM

That's a very good idea. I'm sure great things could come out of collaborations, especially since there are lot of talented people in our community :D

 

 

 

Just a thought, maybe you can try and reach out to Goose as well, he might be able to help or not, I can't speak for him. But from what I saw, he does some pretty great stuff :)

 

He did some superbly steamy work indeed, I am suprised he hasn't been hired yet to be perfectly honest, I can't imagine such work would fall short to the quality standards and it would be a rich boon for the community :). +1 for Goose, someone hire him now :D.


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#10 Constantine

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 11:23 PM

3DXChange is one I did try to transfer animations from skeleton to skeleton, having tried quite a few times it just didn't seem to work properly.

It is ok on simple moves but when they get a little complicated like faster dance moves they seem to go all over the place.

Reading up in forums lots of people seem to say the only real good way to do it with a high level of success is with MotionBuilder.

 

What methods you're trying to transfer animations? I dont want to be a smartass but... Each skeleton has different names,hierarchy, and amount of bones, so if you want to transfer anims properly, you have to map bones from desired sekeleton to yours/vice versa. Here is a good example of mapping via Mbuilder https://youtu.be/jnoZ8d7BEcM?t=3m44s and you have to map all possible bones for proper animation. I think there is a lot of anim soft have that kind of function like bone mapping, atleast Daz3d have. If its helped you can call me sensei :P , otherwise - smartass :ph34r:


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#11 Guest_Twiggy_*

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 04:42 AM

Hey Constantine :)

Not thinking you are being a smartass at all, it is exactly what I am talking about.

We had tried using the auto mapping in Daz3D to transfer animations to a 3DS model, and yes the skeletons are very different.

Although it does seem to do the transfer ok what we found was in at least some of the animations they did not look exactly the same.

For example in one where we had a dance move and the model clapped her hands together, on the 3ds model we had in Unity the hands passed right through each other.

It seems that when the transfer is done it does not allow for re calculating the movement of the models to suite the difference in the skeletons, it just applies the movements to the correct bones.

Therefore because of the 2 skeletons being different in sizes and such the animations often although are close to being the same, aren't exactly the same.

From what we have been told by people in other forums the only program that does re calculate so they turn out exactly the same is MotionBuilder, as you see in that video you linked to.

 

Now this is just what we understand from our research and attempting transfers ourselves, we could be wrong and may be doing the transfers wrong.

There may be people in here that have been successful in doing it and these are the sort of things I think we can sort out by us all getting together in here.

 

What I think we need to do is figure out a successful path for getting animations created in the different programs from us through to the devs in a way where they will all go straight in. 

So the devs are not getting loads of animations that have errors.

 

For now that path seems to me to be we need to use MotionBuilder as it can produce animations that will look exactly the same as they will in game.

So if we create in other programs, we send those animations to someone who has MotionBuilder to get them to do the transfer, it seems like the safest method so far.

 

If we can find ways to go straight from Blender, or straight from Daz3D, even better, but it needs to be certain to work exactly right.

 

 

FrenchTouch has offered to do some videos on how to go about creating animations and post them in here, which is so cool and will be so helpful to any of us who want to learn, thank you Frenchie :)

 

I think this can work, there has already been quite a few show they know quite a deal about things already.

We just all need to get together and work through what we need to do.

 

Thank you to everyone for your input, please keep it coming  :)

Any input is welcome, even from people who know nothing about it and just wants to know how to get started.

Let's start asking questions and finding answers


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#12 FrenchTouchs

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 08:31 AM

PACK FOR THE BEGINNER ON 3DS

(MOTION BUILD 3DS AUTODESK - BIPED ON THE MOBU FULLY RIGGED AND ENHANCED BY FT /// AND 3 FREE ANIMATION CAPTURE ON KINECT)

 

UPLOAD IN PROGRESS (MEDIAFIRE LINK)

 

(CAUTION THE VERSION OF " 3DS MAX SCHOOL " IS NOT AUTHORIZED FOR COMMERCIAL CONTENT)

 

 

MOTION BUILDER AND 3DS MAX Are really perfect for creating alot of things for the games. DAZ3D is not designed for this. :)


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#13 DarkestSin

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Posted 24 January 2016 - 03:50 PM

Frenchie youre sick! :D :rolleyes:



#14 FrenchTouchs

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 02:38 AM

STARTER PACK FOR 3DS MAX MOBU

- (DANCE / ANIMATION DJ FINISHED INSIDE FREE FBX by FT)

- (FOR CREATE A CLEAN BIPED, U NEED TO CHANGE MORE PARAMETER ON THE "RIGG". BUT ! :D I GIVE U MY PERSONNAL BIPED <3)

- IF U NEED MORE FBX (MORE DANCE OR OTHER CONTACT ME)

 

IF U CREATE A NEW ANIMATION ON 3DS (I CAN CONVERT UR ANIMATON IN THE BIP. :D (Send me  ur animation and wait))

 

 

Link (MEDIAFIRE)

LINK



#15 Goose

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 08:05 AM

For now that path seems to me to be we need to use MotionBuilder as it can produce animations that will look exactly the same as they will in game.
So if we create in other programs, we send those animations to someone who has MotionBuilder to get them to do the transfer, it seems like the safest method so far.

MotionBuilder will not work since the 3dx rig cannot be validated in it .. the 3dx rig uses custom bone names. It's easier to just export bvh from another program.
 

If we can find ways to go straight from Blender, or straight from Daz3D, even better, but it needs to be certain to work exactly right.

I am working on a Blender rig for that .. (blender export to bvh -> max import to bvh -> max convert to bip). So far I have gotten everything right except for hand movements, the neck, and one of the spine bones. Once I get those right I can focus on the remaining less-important bones. It'll just take some trial and error since this hasn't really been done before.

(this is just a test animation)
Blender render:
bo6NxERb.gif

Blender rig with mocap rig constrained to it:
uQmSvTdB.gif

Imported into 3dsmax biped:
mbo5xHUT.gif
 
3dxchat's biped rig:
bUeZbIIP.gif
^The knees are pulling away because the bottom spine bone isn't getting any rotations, and the pelvis' location needs fixing
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#16 Guest_Twiggy_*

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 06:33 PM

Hi Goose,

Yep that is the kind of thing I have seen, the animations go very close but mostly seem to be there are just slight differences like the one you show.

 

I had asked FrenchTouch what he used to give his animations to the devs, unless I have it wrong he said MotionBuilder created bvh files.

I am guessing and perhaps we need to make sure that Lisa takes it from there and converts them to what is needed for 3DX.

From what I understand they need to be in the standard 3DS animation bones format.

Hopefully FrenchTouch will clarify that.

 

There must be a way for MotionBuilder to import or load Daz files as that video you showed, which is one I had seen before and we here had worked out what we thought from, it shows an animation with the daz bones being converted to 3DS.

 

I made a couple of sex animations like you did, as I hadn't tried it before, we had just done some motion capture before for dance moves.

Your right in what you said, there is very little work in them and they don't take much time to do at all.

 

I am looking at making some tease poses, that is something I have wanted for a long time in the game but haven't tried asking for them as everyone always seem to want sex poses.

1st ones will be for stage strip acts, like for sin club, I have 6 in mind.

2nd I will do lap dance which i think will be best to work on someone sitting on a couch as a chair looks like it is limited because of varying body sizes.

 

But before I even start I need to make sure they can be used and I guess you may be in the same position.



#17 FrenchTouchs

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 07:36 PM

The game works with Unity 4. The FBX works perfectly on unity . But for reasons of sync , use the "BIP" format.

The problem of BVH to BIP . Is that the frames will be uneven and can cause many and randomly problem (FPS not regular). That is the reason why I NEVER work with BVH . (And I work ONLY for 3DS export is much simpler ) and motion builder is a VERY POWERFUL software.

 

But, u can work on blender, or other software.

 

 

FBX >>>> BIP = Better perfomance ? Why ? Just one take00

BVH >>> to FBX >>> BIP = Bad FPS on Unity (It's my personnal/professional experience)

 

If you use 3DS MAX . You must obtain a professional license. (Because your creation will destine for commercial use ) .

The student license is not authorized for this type of export.

Blender is perfect for beginners >>>> But DAZ3D IS NOT GOOD FOR THE ANIMATION GAME.

Motion Builder is a powerful tool (VERY VERY powerful) . But very difficult for beginners.

 

I can send two animation (FBX and BIP) You will learn how to convert a BIP to FBX :)

 

SEX POSE / Or OTHER ANIMATION IS VERY SIMPLE !!!

 

BUT the dance.... = Suicide Mission ^o^ (Alot move, keyframe and more...) or use Kinect ^o^

I will send my personnal FBX SEX POSE BANK. (I convert my sex pose to the BVH)



#18 FrenchTouchs

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 07:47 PM

My old prototyp

78 Sex Poses

MY PERSONAL BANK OF BVH (Old FBX) SEX POSE

(SEND ME A PM FOR THE PASSWORD)

LINK


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#19 Guest_Twiggy_*

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 06:22 AM

Thanks Frenchie, so we know the right file path to use now.

 

I know this likely seems a little confusing to people looking to maybe get into animation.

I guess what we are doing is sorting out the correct tools to use, software, models, skeletons, file types and such.

Once we have that we can start explaining things a lot more clearly and showing people what software they need and how to go about it all the way through to file delivery to the devs.

There are a lot of programs around that make animations, some work fine others don't, some will work with different file types others won't.

On top of that there are differences between them all in things like skeletons which makes the animation files not work properly in others.

Some offer transfer utilities to which some work fine and others do not.

This is what we are working out, what software to use, which ones will produce the right animation files that can easily be transferred and work correctly.

Once we have that the posts will start becoming a lot easier to understand.



#20 latinoguy

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 09:13 PM

 

My old prototyp

78 Sex Poses

MY PERSONAL BANK OF BVH (Old FBX) SEX POSE

(SEND ME A PM FOR THE PASSWORD)

LINK

 

 

Hi Friends,

 

Anyone know the password for that file? I studing bvh files... I sent pm to Frenchtouchs but he isnΒ΄t on line for months. 

 

Thanks very much for any help




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